Can it be too easy to access a termination?

Larry, you haven't offended anyone. I hope your daughter is ok. If she felt she was rushed through this then she was rushed through this. No one should feel this has been done at anything other than their own pace - and if she didn't get that then something is wrong.

All I was saying is, delays should not be built in. The pace I wanted/needed was rapid and automatic as soon as I said what I wanted. Perhaps your daughter wanted something different - ie, dr sketches out the options and she is left some time to think about it. The dr should have been able to do that whilst at the same time ensuring that I get the termination I want without any further delay.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend or demean anyone. I thought a feminism board was the right place to discuss this. Clearly not.

No, it's exactly the right place to discuss it, Larry. However, it's also likely to mean that people will question your own motivations for posting the question in the first place: did you realise that proposing to restrict access to abortion for any reason was going to be unpopular? Or that your question implied you thought there was a difference between the kind of consent required for sexual activity and medical intervention? Making people examine their preconceptions and implicit assumptions is fairly standard fare on this board.

Thank you everyone for your input, it's been very thought provoking. Again, I'm sorry for offending and demeaning you all.

I'm not offended or demeaned. Feminists don't have a hive mind where we all collectively are offended or pleased about the same things. I'm glad it's been thought-provoking, though, and I'd prefer if you stuck around for more discussion.

And I hope your DD feels better about her decision soon. I'm sorry it's caused her distress

sash I don't think ending a pregnancy is the right reason to have a termination. I think the pregnant woman deciding independently to end the pregnancy is the only reason to have a termination. Rather than because she has been persuaded to think she should have one by someone/s else.

However like I said I don't see how you could practically ensure that doesn't happen, unless you start making all the women who have decided for themselves justify their decisions or wait.

Abortions can leave the woman with a tremendous sense of guilt. There is a viewpoint that abortion is murder. Sometimes people suffer terrible depression after an abortion

I've never met anyone sensible who honestly thinks that abortion is murder. That's a viewpoint that seems to be held only by people who think that women simply can't be trusted to think for themselves.

Larry, this was the "right place" to discuss it, the fact that you didn't get the answers you wanted notwithstanding.

Abortions can leave the woman with a tremendous sense of guilt. There is a viewpoint that abortion is murder. Sometimes people suffer terrible depression after an abortion

As you can after mastectomy, sterilization, ectopic pregnancy.

Sometimes people suffer terrible depression after giving birth, but we don't offer people ttc counselling.

I apologise for how that came across, I appreciate you didn't intend that. But can you see my point of view at all?

My life has been far more affected by my decision to have a gland removed than by my decision to have a termination.

Should I have been forced into counselling to make sure I didn't regret permanently affecting my metabolism?

People who think abortion is murder can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. They don't even believe women are people, so they get no say in our access to medical care.

We'll just have to disagree there Drspouse.

In my experience they are pretty much exactly the same.

"I have had several operations, I wasn't offered counselling. I have had some unpleasant medical procedures eg colonoscopy, again withuot counselling.

My mother had two separate mastectomies and a hysterectomy no counselling.

Why is termination any different?"

Abortions can leave the woman with a tremendous sense of guilt. There is a viewpoint that abortion is murder. Sometimes people suffer terrible depression after an abortion.

Maybe everything happened so fast that the op daughter had little time to think what she wanted.

I don't agree with a two day wait. But some form of emotional support /counselling should be available on the same day the woman requests termination, so that women only have terminations for the right reasons, i.e. because they want them. Rather than their partner or family have influenced them.

The only reason to have a termination is to end that particular pregnancy. Further than that it is up to the individual woman.

Otherwise who decides the 'right' reason?

I have had several operations, I wasn't offered counselling. I have had some unpleasant medical procedures eg colonoscopy, again withuot counselling.

My mother had two separate mastectomies and a hysterectomy no counselling.

Why is termination any different?

No I don't. I'm asking what others think, that's all. Just asking

But you haven't thought about the perspective you're asking from, and that of those you are asking. Never mind about this recent experience, you're in a country that has full on demand access, and you're talking about restricting it. But you're talking to women who are already restricted, and, a smaller group of women who live in a country where they have NO access at all to abortion, its completely illegal.
Can you imagine how that comes across, you as a women who has the rights we are fighting very hard to get, to talk about restricting it "for your own good"? Can you see how that might be viewed as offensive and demeaning?

The whole teen with ASD thing is a red herring. If she isn't capable of making decisions about her body in the context of abortion, then she is also not capable of making decisions about her body in the context of sexual consent.

That's not necessarily true, but in any case, the whole thing verges IMO on the "enforced sterilisation/contraception/termination" end of things for those with learning disabilities.

And that is a consent matter - I don't think medical consent and sexual consent are necessarily at the same level. Medical consent can be more trivial or at least requiring less thought (someone who is drugged or drunk might be conscious enough to consent to an emergency medical procedure) or can be more serious and long-lasting (someone who understands the implications of sleeping with her boyfriend may not understand the implications of taking part in a medical research trial).

Also it is not true that everyone who takes contraception intending not to become pregnant would automatically terminate a pregnancy because they found they were pregnant having originally intended not to become pregnant. Isn't it something like 1/3 of pregnancies are unplanned but still desired?

The latter though is not too relevant in this case. I am more worried that an individual who may have slightly limited decision-making capabilities was not offered support to make a medical decision - it really does smack of "we've decided this option is best for you".

So she was asked whether she wanted to proceed? She was given a choice. If she was unsure she could have said at that time. It wasn't a "you have to act now and your decision is final" moment. However, if she felt railroaded into the decision then that is quite a different matter. No woman should feel that either.

Termination is always a decision you may later regret, especially if you are in two minds about it. No matter how long you think about it there is always that risk (as there is to all one-way decisions).

I'm sorry she is having some regrets though. That must be shitty for her.

That's a very good point, Polter.

Choosing not to be pregnant is usually a decision that you don't want your life to change.

Maybe women should have to wait 2 days and attend counselling before having unprotected sex?

Getting a mortgage?

Accepting a job?

Quitting a job?

my daughter's experience makes me wonder if some women are at risk of making a decision they later regret

And as pp have said, for those some women it is a different issue, and not a reason to change things for everyone.

Any move to restrict abortion is wrong.

I'm asking if it's right that women are asked to make life changing decisions in an extremely vulnerable moment and whether safeguards should be in place to protect them

You're asking if women need to be prevented from getting quick access to abortion for their own good, with measures put in place to tell women that they are not allowed to make their own decision on their own timeline because you think someone else should be able to intervene.

No, is the answer. You've taken your own unique situation and want to use it to affect all women, for no good reason. You should be looking at the area of informed consent NOT restricting access to abortion for everyone else.

Hard cases make bad law.

I posted too soon...

The op allows her dd to decide to take precautions against getting pregnant, until she IS pregnant. Then she isn't allowed to decide not to be pregnant.

A two day enforced wait is an awful idea - what if that woman is in an abusive relationship, tracked every moment (it comes up a lot on relationships) - now she has to escape twice? What about if you're in a low-paid job, and can't afford to or just can't get the time off easily.

If you want to wait, you can, if you want it now, you should be able to. Anything else is paternalistic garbage to try to prevent a woman having full control of her own body.

OP's daughter can have sex, was taking contraception, why, when it comes to stopping a pregnancy is she suddenly not competent? And why should that then necessitate all other women being assumed to not be competent?

I'm asking if it's right that women are asked to make life changing decisions in an extremely vulnerable moment and whether safeguards should be in place to protect them.

If you think your daughter's SN makes her unable to give informed consent for medical matters then you may need to do something about that with the GP

I agree! If she is that vulnerable, and you think she should have been given time to process/discuss, surely you all let her down by thinking she was able to cope with medical matters by herself. I mean, I get that you didn't know she was pregnant, but either she is allowed to access medical assistance, and consent to procedures by herself or she is not. You cannot pick & choose what she can consent to.

I made a life changing decision while I was, I would say, at my most vulnerable, regarding my termination. And ime, if someone offered me an abortion pill when I told them I was pregnant & didn't want to be, I would bitten their hand off.

A teen with autism will comply with advice from a health professional and may not realise she has a choice. Then that teen should be chaperoned so someone else can help her make that decision. Not left alone to navigate the medical world by herself.

Such a women needs a place in a woman's refugee and help to get out of such an abusive relationship. Waiting two days to think through her options will not harm her. A woman (on finding out she is pregnant with an unplanned, unwanted baby, which could very well be the result of marital rape) who is susceptible to EA by a partner will probably not be in any position, emotionally, to access a refuge, and two days gives her abuser enough time to coerce her into keeping a baby she doesn't want. And that doesn't end well.

Xenophile great post. Especially about the consent issue wrt to termination v sex.