Why do (some) men sexually abuse/rape?

A paedophile or rapist learns his behaviour and blaming genetics only lets him off the hook.

Actually, no, I don't think so - not automatically in every society ever.
If we blame biology, we would have to keep them in prison (or some closed psychiatric facility, whatever) forever. The individual man would not be "blamed", but society would be safe, and that, in my book, is the most important thing.
If we think it is learnt, then it can be unlearnt, and they can be released as "healed".

Considering the repeat offender rate, I am not sure I am happy with the state of things as is.

You are, of course, right that in patriarchy, we are expected to just put up with the things that are blamed on male biology. But it doesn't have to be that way.

I seriously wouldn't say paraphilias are linked to broken chromosomes.

Nurture rather than nature makes more sense. A paedophile or rapist learns his behaviour and blaming genetics only lets him off the hook.

This article says paraphilia are 20 times more common in men than women but doesn't explain why

It's probably because men only have one X chromosome. If the one X chromosome is broken in some way, then that's it. Women can have the same problems if both X are broken, but that's rarer.

The Y chromosome is a highly parasitic life form; most of the two X-chromosomes women have isn't even active, as over the course of evolution, the X chromosome has taken over most of the Y-chromosome's functions. The Y chromosomes does nothing much except determining the development of male genitals. People with one X chromosome and no Y chromosome can survive. They just aren't able to have children. All vital functions are on the X chromosome, and the only thing the second X does for women is enable us to reproduce and acting as backup if the first X is damaged.

Maybe for some of them it's a paraphilia/fetishist. This article says paraphilia are 20 times more common in men than women but doesn't explain why

www.hypersexualdisorders.com/sex-addiction/paraphilias-and-sex-addiction/

I used to struggle with the whole "men don't see us as humans" line of thought. After all they talk to us, laugh with us, work with us, live with us even purport to love us. And of course being a woman I know I'm just as human as they are. How could they possibly not know this?

And then someone on here pointed out that EVERY single right we have won we've had to fight for. Men haven't turned round and gone "you know you are right - how could we have been so stupid of course you deserve the vote/not to be raped in marriage (or at all)/be responsible for your own money/earn the same/have bodily autonomy etc". They have resisted and resisted and resisted and still continue to resist and refuse to acknowledge the harm they do. If they really believed we were as human as they were, we would not have to fight for these rights and acknowledgements. They would just be given.

It is exactly the same with other oppressed groups. The oppressors don't acknowledge they are deserving of the same rank of human being as themselves otherwise they wouldn't treat them as they do.

men don't see women as human

I guess something that reinforces that this might be the case in a lot of situations is that men, when hearing that a man has been raped by another man, consider that to be a much bigger deal than a woman being raped.

Men (and women, unfortunately) never seem to suggest that the man might have wanted it really, or was asking for it by being drunk/wearing a tight t-shirt.

Raping a man is always a clear cut and horrific crime.

Raping a woman? Not so much.

I am persuaded by men don't see women as human

Although I would extend it to say "men see themselves as more human than their human female counterparts and therefore allow themselves more leeway"

Because they like it.

(some) Men seem to love rape, having their pleasure with someone whether the victim wants it or not. Child rapist love raping and hurting children, they don't love children they hate them. Same with women. They hate women.

NAMALT.

I think education must be part of the solution. But I don't mean just teaching children/teens in PSHE about consent. I think rape/sexual assault is very much linked to the continued objectification and comoditisation of women and women's bodies. It worries me that nowadays these are too often dressed up as 'empowering' to women and as a sign of sexual equality. Increased openness about sex and sexuality seems to have been hijacked by some as meaning that treating women as sexual objects (page 3, porn etc) is healthy and a celebration of women's sexual freedom. I read a thread on here recently with a link to a telegraph article on the experience in Germany of legalised prostitution which was horrifying. In a society where this is the interpretation of sexual liberation for women it is no surprise to me that some men treat women in this way.

I know some wonderful men who do not agree with this type of treatment of women (and hope that I am raising DS to be one of them) but I know that they find it difficult to express this view with the 'lads' without being seen as a bit weird and prudish. For example, a friend declined a visit to a lap dancing club on a work night out and was told he was no fun, needed to lighten up, what was he scared of etc. I feel it insulting to these good men when people of both genders excuse sexist behaviour/inappropriate behaviour as 'just the way men are'. It is not just how men are, but perhaps it is how they will act if society tells them that they should and tells women that they should let them.

So education/messages in society etc or arseholes? Quite different answers.

Well, obviously the arseholes work to make their attitude more acceptable to the rest of society. Only 30% of men are rapists, most of the remaining 70% have been convinced by the rapists that consent is oh so complicated, and they could be wrongly accused of rape and that it is in their best interest to take a rapist's side in a court case. (This is only possible because even the "good" men still view their own desires as more important than women's rights.)

The messages of course help rapists to get away with rape, so in a way to contribute to the prevalence of rape.

I'm not particularly persuaded by the men don't see women as human explanation , particularly not in the case where there is an existing relationship.

This is what makes patriarchy possible. Men's ability to "love" some individual women while not considering women, in general, quite human, and in fact not even seeing those individual women they know as human.

It's like your attitude towards a pet. You love your pet, but you don't consider it human, and will have it sterilized without asking for its consent. You will also quite probably not demand that the man who ran your cat over with his car be punished for murder in the same way he would if the cat was human.

If an existing relationship meant that a man sees a woman as human, we would never have had to fight for voting rights.

Setting aside the stranger in an alley situation I think Carol's post is very pertinent. I'm not particularly persuaded by the men don't see women as human explanation , particularly not in the case where there is an existing relationship. There is centuries of cultural baggage to the idea women need to be persuaded

The concept of martial rape in UK law is less than 30 years old. The joke quoted by Carole is only one of many. If there is a thread on here today about slutty women being up for sex it's an attitude that still prevails.

There was a BBC (C4 actually - can't remember now) programme on a while back about attitudes to rape and one thing that was incredibly striking was that men knew exactly what constituted rape. It was the women who were more 'forgiving' about what was and was not rape.

It therefore seemed that men do know what they are doing.

Reminds me of my exh who used to say "I wish you would enjoy it more".

No thanks

I agree that depressingly it's fairly basic. We are worth less financially. Pay us 80p to every male pound then our "NO!" becomes 20% less valid.

Get our status right down there in the lowly realms of caring, teaching, nursing, parenting. Might be crucial to society but it's not going to earn us power or status or the men would already be doing it.

Get our bodies out there, full public display. Want a look? Oh, go on. Want a touch? Ah, might as well. You can see breasts with your news (but heaven forbid, a breastfeeder, in PUBLIC!), you can buy a 4 year old a bikini.

Murder us. Go on, murder us. Don't worry about the media frenzy, in a week it'll be someone else's headache. Don't worry if you're supposed to be the men who love us, in a week it'll be someone else's headache. Don't worry if we're prostitutes, out here with the sisters and doing it for ourselves. Don't worry if we're 15, everyone knows what 15 means.

Rape? Well go on then, you might as well.

I don't think anyone can know exactly why people (men and women rape and sexually abuse).

I bet there's all sorts of reasons. But because we can't comprehend it ourselves, it's hard to understand ....

Because the men who do this are assholes who think their desires are more important than the welfare of their victims

This is exactly what I wanted to say, but much more concise than my convoluted post.

Yes. The men who do this are assholes. I think I neglected to mention that, but it needs to be said.

@Felascloak: First step would be to change society in a way that men never get the opportunity to think of women as not human.

There are a number of reasons:

Historically, women were not 'allowed' to want sex, so men had to 'persuade' them. There is a common 'joke',

If a lady says 'No', she means 'Maybe'; if she says 'Maybe', she means 'Yes'; if she says 'Yes', she's no lady.

Similarly there was a thread today where the OP did not want her boyfriend to go on a holiday in Spain, due to the 'slutty women' there. The implication being 'normal' women need persuading to have sex.

Women claim to be flattered by it. In a column in the Times last week by Kathy Lette, she finished by saying:

So perhaps we should ban wolf-whistling for any woman under 50 but make it compulsory for women over 50. Now that really would be equality.

From a young age, children learn that pestering can get what they want, and many people try and persuade people to try new things or do something they are reluctant to do. Some men fail to understand this is unreasonable in the case of sex.

I think that society gives out messages that actually encourage this type of behaviour to some degree.

Yes totally agree with Chunky. I've had the misfortune of listening to some teenage boys talking about their "conquests" on the bus - I'm obviously so old I'm totally off their radar! But yes, they were very demeaning to the women involved and also alk egging each other on.
I'm sure 99% of what was coming out of their mouths was bollocks but they definitely had weird views on women. (Example - "did you fuck her?" "Yeah but she's so fat I had to roll her in flour to find the wetspot". The trombones)
Films, TV, books all have that trope that no doesn't really mean no and women are persuadable by stalky behaviour.
Plus that very common make behaviour of telling massive lies to get a woman into bed (ie I really like you, I have for ages blah blah blah) then going cold after.
I just think some males see sex as a goal, not fussy about with who or how they get it as they don't quite see women as human
I don't know what can be done about it really. It's so deeply ingrained.

Because the men who do this are assholes who think their desires are more important than the welfare of their victims

Maybe also because - and proof of this can be found in a thread that is in active at present - when as a teen they assault a girl at school, it goes unchallenged, with many seeing it as "normal"

Wasn't there an 'ask a rapist' thread on red dit a while back? Was chilling