Why do (some) men sexually abuse/rape?

"the recognition that liberating women from gendered hierarchy will also liberate men, which will benefit a great many who are harmed by masculinity at the moment"
I've never quite believed this -- but maybe that is because it just feels to me like having to say 'Oh, but it will benefit you as well!' in order to try and get men to agree with it.

Men benefit from the patriarchy, and have to be willing to give that up. Else how are we to understand the thousands of years that the patriarchy has persisted and why it is so resistant to change?

And F4J are precisely the sort to flame women for basically pointing out that men rape, that men are violent, and entitled.

In saying this I obviously hate men. (I don't actually, I hate the system).

Bertrand maybe not men afaik but certainly patriarch-compliant people (so may as well be men).

"Buffy - some men have tried but generally get trashed both by the media and by - umm - most women. Fathers 4 Justice et al."

Not sure Fathers4Justice are a particularly good example to use............

Buffy - some men have tried but generally get trashed both by the media and by - umm - most women. Fathers 4 Justice et al.

"I've always believed that feminism helps women but a by-product in theory (because we don't live in a feminist world) is that feminism helps men too. But I've been flamed on MN saying that before haha."

Presumably by men?

Male entitlement. As a group men are socialised to have male entitlement (and women are socialised to respect that entitlement). Some/ many (depending on your pov) men have had experiences as children, teens, and/ or adults that result in them reflecting on and making it their business to resist and/ or challenge male entitlement. There are potent discourses around gender that sustain male entitlement; for example, the male sex drive is talked about as powerful and ever-present, which supports male entitlement.
The older I get the more I recognise that. I anticipate being an angry old woman.
A poster above said that while some say rape is about control the poster disagreed and said they thought it was sometimes about sex. It's both because it's sex he feels entitled to - whether it is taken by violent force or coercion or deception from a stranger, a friend, a relative, or a partner, it is male entitlement at work.

I'm surprised you were flamed for saying feminism benefits men too, Ophelia. I thought that was pretty well accepted on Mn. Even just taking the world of work, the fact that I didn't have to stop work on marriage (unlike my gran), that my job was there for me to return to after maternity leave, that both of is could work flexibly, that my salary was given equal weight in a mortgage application, that if we have another child, DH could take SPL etc, feminism has benefitted the men in my family.

Maybe if we lived in a world where emotions were viewed as a strength rather than a weakness, empathy might play a bigger part in all of our lives (fewer wars, fewer abuses, exploitation, etc).

Under patriarchy
Man = strength
Woman = weakness

Emotions and empathy = female and counter productive.

Maybe men rape because under patriarchy they are encouraged to be this way. Strong, unemotional, unaccountable and it's always her fault.

I've always believed that feminism helps women but a by-product in theory (because we don't live in a feminist world) is that feminism helps men too. But I've been flamed on MN saying that before haha.

I do not live the most feminist-approved lifestyle.
I do however have very personal feminist views and in my life try to help all the women I know in my line of work to get as much out of their choices as they can, to not take shit and to see the shit for what it really is. I help women by providing information and access that can expand their choices and increase their safety.

You can get bogged down in the overthinking but most people just get on with it! (Untill the revolution lol).

sense it is overwhelming when you start thinking about these things. You can't "unsee" it, unfortunately.
All I would say is if individual men have abused you that is absolutely 100% on them and cannot be excused by male nature/biology. Not all men are like that, seriously and you don't have to accept it. Hope you are ok

A decent explanation would require a lengthy academic paper examining human psychology from the dawn of modern civilisation some 5000 years ago. I'm definitely not going to do that!

Leaving aside the background, we're not in a culture that truly values emotional and psychological well-being, and perhaps most people struggle to find happiness and fulfillment in their lives. All the posts here on MN are proof of that!

The disappointment of not having one's core needs met causes massive pain, frustration, anger and sadness - and each individual has to deal with it somehow. A few have perhaps been taught in childhood how to do that, a few more have managed to acquire the skills in adulthood. But for the majority it's a botch job, patching ourselves up internally with string and duct tape. We develop coping strategies to numb the pain through drink, drugs, eating, shopping; sometimes we turn it against ourselves in the form of disease (auto-immune disorders, ulcers, cancer); sometimes we discharge it against others, either verbally (rows), psychologically (emotional abuse) or physically (violence, rape). Sometimes it is too painful to bear, resulting in breakdown or suicide.

For cultural and biological reasons, women are generally taught to value emotions more than men, with the result that women tend to develop better self-management skills. They tend to discharge their pain in a slow, steady stream. Men tend to try to tough it out - and then explode (or implode).

Again, I think it is empathy - men think sex is something you do, like drinking coffee. Sometimes it is great, sometimes less good.
They do not understand the violation and powerlessness of women in that situation.

Look at it another way: why do people not rape?

Non rapists have a 'profile'

Eg

Female
Pre pubescent
Have empathy
Respect others
No violent behaviours

Rapists aren't a homogenous group just as non rapists aren't. That is why they stay so well hidden and we all know them even though we don't know we know them.

Some people say rape is about control but I disagree. I think for some it is about sex. And an arrogance about their ability to elicit sex from another party without a thought to their feelings.

With rape within long term relationships, whether married or not I've heard women talk with the assumption that it is unreasonable for them to withhold sex. That is just chilling. How can we educate the perpetrators if the victims don't even know they are victims?

Really interesting, but depressing thread.

I think I agree with most points mentioned and I think the reasons as to why men rape is probably a combination of all of them to an extent (some more than others, maybe?).

But the hating women, and not seeing them as human. That is the point that stood out to me the most for some reason. If you didn't hate women, you wouldn't abuse them in such a way. Surely? Because that's not how you treat the people you like in life.

Short answer because they can.
Long answer
-because the punishment is a joke
-because they've never been told no
-because they hate women/a woman/themselves/whatever and is about power and control
-because of myths like playing hard to get, no means maybe,she knows what she's going back for etc
-because some are unchallenged,excused and their transgressions minimised even when caught
-because if a woman is sexually active with someone means she'll be sexually active with anyone,including them
-because some see sex as a right
-because while the law has updated to cover all scenarios of rape the mentality hasn't and they would be genuinely appalled to be accused of rape
-because rape apologists still exist absolving them of at least half if not all responsibility
I could go on

The personal is political, sister

That's why women-focussed spaces like MN are so important, IMO. Gives us all a chance to realise it's not just us, it's systemic.

On differences between reactions to male and female rape, it is imo just empathy. Raped women have, generally, had penetrative sex previously so it may seem not a big deal compared to a man, who is a 'virgin' in that sense.
The reaction to child rape and elder (pensioner) rape is similar to male rape, in that it is something they do not do, so is an offense to the victim.
Rape of women in the sexually active bracket, particularly non-dark alley rape is seen as something they do voluntarily with other penises, so what is the big deal?

There is some research on the motivations of serial rapists.Makes chilling reading. www.sfgate.com/news/article/Four-types-of-serial-rapists-what-makes-them-3159973.php

I wonder if it comes from thinking that women are meant to be penetrated and therefore on some level it's not so bad as a man experiencing unwanted penetration. So probably linked to the idea that women are the sex class...

I think there is a general feeling that a woman having penetration she doesn't want is less of an issue than it happening to a man. Hence punters who will not appreciate that women from whom they buy consent are in the same position as they would be selling consent to a man.

Whether this is "Victorian" - women don't really like sex, they are just doing their duty - or something else - women are the sex class, sex is one of the things women are for - I don't know.