Feminism, psychiatry and Mumsnet

I have been told I must be ok because I was wearing earrings/ co-ordinated outfit.
It is definitely a feminist issue, surprised by posters saying judging by appearances is ok.

In that case, it's not a feminist issue around make-up being used as a sign, but a lack of training and knowledge about post-natal depression that led to issues with your care. It would have been a useful barometer for other MH conditions so I don't think it's something to be used in favour of antipsychiatry.

pennefortheguy - it's just not true for everyone. And you have to be very careful with some disorders (or individuals for that matter) whose illness doesn't run the usual course. For instance, with post partum psychosis individuals can go between being floridly psychotic to lucid very rapidly. Make up would be a fairly useless barometer of mental health there. It was the same for me with PND in that though I was in general low mood I also had periods of very rapid decline into extreme distress and suicidal thoughts.

And yep, I should have complained but I was not well enough at the time. I muddled through but the lack of treatment at that stage in all likelihood contributed to the very fast decline I went through after my next pregnancy. I very, very nearly didn't survive that one. Luckily, I had moved and the services in the area I moved to were much better. No one was fooled by the make up.

As for the OP, I think calling MH services in general "smoke and mirrors" is to do them a massive disservice. I'd question the motive for this post as OP seems to have a personal axe to grind, and is trying to manipulate others into agreeing with her by making it into a feminist issue.

When I was in hospital, the day I decided to put some lipstick on everyone commented on how much better I looked and how far I'd come along. I don't think it's about conforming to a feminine stereotype, it's because it indicates that you've taken an interest in how you look and made an effort. When you're deeply depressed, you're too caught up in misery to even think about lipstick or hair. It's actually not a shallow perspective at all, it's about what it represents.

I'm quite shocked that the RMN didn't use one of the PND/depression scores though, and just wrote you off for wearing make up. That sounds like something you should definitely complain about.

Fair enough, I must just have been very lucky with the professionals I've worked with over the last 20+ years, and those who cared for me when I was very unwell.

"if a woman's sanity is measured by whether she applies makeup to her face in the mornings"

"Have never heard of any practitioner saying anything even remotely like this."

I have. When I was triaged for postnatal depression the mental health nurse said I was ok because I was wearing make up. I tried to explain to her that it is no measure of my state of mind but she had a very fixed idea of what well and unwell looked like and didn't want to listen to me.

As for the wearing makeup and doing your hair thing. I think both points of view expessed on this thread about that could be true at once. So it is valid in one sense to talk about returning to a normal level of self care and functioning (if that is normal for you). I work in mental health and we would think a fair amount about a man's self care too for instance.
At the same time it is also true that those kinds of judgement about make up and self care have an additional meaning for women so there should be some recognition of the added effect that kind of comment might have.

I think lots of things aren't discussed from a feminist perspective on other forums in mumsnet. However, its interesting you talk about people being particularly compliant. I think if people are in a particularly vulnerable point then its harder to behave in a contrary way to engrained learnt patterns of behaviour. I think that sometimes makes it harder for women, esp women with a history of abuse to challenge the orthodoxy or those in positions of power. Im not sure if it would necessarily translate online though and i havent read the thread you are talking about. However couldthat be a factor?
Other than that - yes huge gendered issues in so many aspects of mental health and the way services are organised and function.

OurLass, that's not the same thing. If it's normal for you to wear make up and do your hair when well, then returning to your normal routine is an indicator of feeling better. If that isn't your normal 'well' behaviour, then I stand by my original point.

If someone was being house with males in a clinic then yes, I'd expect a discussion about whether it was appropriate, but I wasn't aware that was the discussion.

I have actually had experience of a mental health practitioner saying I must be feeling a bit better because I'd started wearing my make up again and paying attention to my hair.

if a woman's sanity is measured by whether she applies makeup to her face in the mornings

Have never heard of any practitioner saying anything even remotely like this.

It's because those areas are generally used by people in acute need or with acute illness, so they are looking for specific help with specific illness issues, rather than a discussion about philosophy of psychiatry.

I think that the question of whether you will be housed with males in a clinic is rather relevant for people who are seeking help with a specific acute illness.

The horror stories I have heard ...

A dear friend of mine (and brilliant fierce feminist) sometimes says that it's not terribly surprising that women struggle with mental health sometimes. It's not easy living in a world that oppresses you then gaslights you that it's not happening.

I also think that the goal of the system is not to heal you, but to turn you into the sort of Stockholm-Syndrome-sufferer that is happy in patriarchy.

There are, of course, psychotherapists who really want to help, and accept that what society considers normal is not really desirable - but if a woman's sanity is measured by whether she applies makeup to her face in the mornings, then clearly, the system that sets those standards is broken.

Why?

For the same reason that the general health board and the children's health board and the life limiting conditions board don't discuss things from a feminist perspective. It's because those areas are generally used by people in acute need or with acute illness, so they are looking for specific help with specific illness issues, rather than a discussion about philosophy of psychiatry.

If you want to discuss mental health from a feminist perspective, this would be the place.

Are you suggesting OP that you aren't getting what you want out of MH services because you're female? Because, in your case, I would have to say that that might be over egging the cake a bit given your history.

Or, are you trying to have a general discussion about feminism and MH services?

I'm afraid you're not making much sense to me. Your posts seem a little hard to follow by that might be because I'm tired

So you agree that mental health services can be 'crappy' and don't always do the best for patients. And you are unsure why other people on mumsnet don't agree with you on this?

I'm not understanding the feminist aspect