Notts police to record harassment as a misogynistic hate crime

If this helps to stop the moronic behaviour of some men in public, then I am all for it. Would you be able to film someone on your phone, for example (but not limited to) shouting from a white van, and submit that as evidence?

Yep makes no sense to me either. I suspect it makes no sense to Vestal either, hence her earlier statement.

And YY to sweating the small stuff IPitythePontipines.

I think this is a very good idea, not only for the reasons stated above, but because violence and abuse against women is often starts with small acts and escalates into more severe ones. Hence any misogyny should be taken very seriously.

From a previous poster - Heterosexual white males cannot be the victims of hate crime, because they have systematically oppressed women, homosexuals and people of colour in the past, and to some extent still do, and never were the victims of systematic oppression at any point in time.

Interesting. Would that rule out white females too, given their part in systematic oppression of black people? We have had slavery and overt racism in the UK in our past. We also have female members of organisations like UKIP and the BNP/National Front.

I think this is a good idea as the incidents which Notts are recording are not treated as hate crimes.

However there seems to be a serious lack of understanding on here, given statements about a white heterosexual male being incapable of being the victim of a hate crime, about what a hate crime is.

"isn't being a woman (or a man) a form of gender identity?". No it they are forms of sex. Sex, as shown on Buffy's link is not reserved for hate crimes (unless in Notts).

So yes when you are raped it clearly isn't because you are a woman. It's just because you are the nearest available sexual object. Which is comforting.

Yay for gendered punishments and everything beginning to be based on gender in a time when we're trying to make gender a non issue

Gender is a non issue. Sex is not.

I'm not sure what this adds. The report states that police already monitor various categories of 'hate crime', including gender identity, and isn't being a woman (or a man) a form of gender identity?

That said, being open specifically about this could help shift misogynistic attitudes, over time.

Then the police can get on to violence against men because they are men: it seems to be a young man thing, to beat up other young men to show how hard you are. DP was attacked over 20 times in his youth, seemingly for no reason other than that he was a lone male picked on by groups of other young males wanting to 'prove themselves.'

I understand "hate crime" is reserved for minority groups

Your understanding is wrong.

I know the family of a "white heterosexual male" , a young man of 17, who was murdered in what was most definitely a hate crime.

Heterosexual white males cannot be the victims of hate crime

Yes they can. That is a ridiculous statement.

I understand "hate crime" is reserved for minority groups, so a white man would be subject to a hate crime if they were living in an area like Detroit or Jackson (majority black areas) so long as it can be proven they were targeted specifically because of their race.

This is why applying hate crime status to crimes against women is problematic, women are not a minority group but they are an oppressed group.

There should be a separate crime called "Misogyny" altogether.

Come on Vestal, answer poster cadnowyllt 's question!

"Hate crime" has a very specific meaning. what is it then ? Because Heterosexual white males can be complainants for offences such as racially aggravated public order offences - are they not hate crimes, within the definition you have ? You're right, btw, its not rocket science.

"Hate crime" has a very specific meaning. Heterosexual white males cannot be the victims of hate crime, because they have systematically oppressed women, homosexuals and people of colour in the past, and to some extent still do, and never were the victims of systematic oppression at any point in time.

A man hating another man as individual person does not make a hate crime!
Really, it is not rocket science - inform yourself what a hate crime is, before crying "what about the men!".

I live in Nottingham but I can't say I get harassed much, but that's possibly cos I'm a bit middle aged now and don't look quite as appealing noawadys.
I have in the past had the usual shouting from vans etc which is annoying. I do know others who have had more full on approaches, perhaps the incidence is increasing?

It is a good thing that some way of reporting and tackling it is in place. Men do need to know that they will be held to account for bad behaviour. Education from school level should be done also, it starts with little boys.

But you are giving him attention and taking it away from women . Just ignore.

I'm not sure that because women suffer abuse more than men it makes the actual abuse worse

Yeah it does. Because systemic inequalities are so obviously worse for women. It's same thing as racism: hurtful as it is if a black person insults me over my race, I don't have systemic cultural and economic injustice to contend with, so that doesn't underpin the abuse. It's worse if a white person is racist because we are already privileged.

Good. Not before time.

About bloody time.

The only times I've ever been abused and harassed by strangers, it's been because I'm a woman. Men need to be shown that it's not acceptable to follow someone from a bus-stop making comments, grab hold of my arm to stop me leaving a bar, or yell at me from across the road.

It is a hate crime because not only is it harassment, but it was motivated by an attribute that I have (ie. female), just as racial abuse, or yelling at people because they are gay or lesbian is.

No problem.