MN deleted thread

We can still try to continue the same discussion without the personal nastiness which I think most would agree was the main issue. MNHQ didn't say they thought the thread was transphobic - they left that open and vague by simply linking to their guidelines on transphobia.

but I was then being attacked basically saying they are not woman and what is living like a woman etc..

Louw I don't think this kind of response is an attack on you, it's just disagreement with the idea that a male person can become a woman through concerted effort which is a solid point. I agree though that comments about your potential age and spelling were unnecessary.

There is a general trans thread if anyone wants to move any particular parts of the discussion over there (not sure if this will count as a TAAT.

Thread, have you just changed your name? I didn't realise you were that poster

I didn't read the end of the asd thread so this may have been covered, but as a disabled female with a male carer (who according to these ideas would be in the men's changing?) does my bodily autonomy count for nothing? So the boy can't express his feelings, doesn't mean he's happy to be in the female changing facilities, does it?
Anyway, OT.

But these are the discussions we need to have. Does my body autonomy only count as long as no one else isn't offended? I mean, so you think I have the right to refuse an intimate examination from a trans person or a man? Ot does their right to not be offended or upset trump my right to say what goes on with my body?

Thread, throughout the last thread I just wanted to give you a huge hug. We need to hear stories like yours to ensure a full debate is possible.

The changing room threads were bizarre. Glad at least one of them is gone

bishop the thread you are thinking of was about a woman objecting to an older child with asd in the women's changing rooms. The majority view was that the woman's method of objecting was out of order, but older boys shouldn't be in the women's changing rooms and op had a valid reason to use the disabled changing room. It then became disabled versus women because it was suggested that regardless of age the person with a disability trumps womens rights. (Paraphrasing but that was the gist)

It got taken down because the op was suspect, rather than because of anything said. Not making this into a taat, just explaining what happened.

"hope it is an isolated deletion not the start of more threads being deleted."

Yy

thread

louw unfortunately people will react if you come on a thread with a poorly thought through position, make contradictory statements like "I know my trans friend can never be the same as a woman, but he's more of a woman than you lot are" and call posters bitches. Posters on that thread (including me) tried to engage with you honestly and you were rude and insulting to us. So please stop trying to rewrite what happened.

With respect to the thread deletion, I can see why that happened because the article linked in the OP was pretty offensive to trans people and women. I can see why Hermione linked it and some aspects of the discussion were useful. I hope it is an isolated deletion not the start of more threads being deleted.

which leads me to assume that mnhq saw that it was the rest of the posts which where transphobic and out of line

Are it could've been deleted because the HQer was tired and had had enough? Deletions are not done to any thread to validate a posters point of view. There are deleted because those running the site don't want them there anymore.

It's MN's choice what they delete.

There have been HUGE threads about feminism on MN. And the upshot is that it's just another topic. MN is not, and does not ever claim to be, a 'beacon' for feminism, not matter how much regulars in FWR wish it was.

I am far more bothered when a bereavement thread on which people have shared RL experiences proves to have been a bad one.

And no, I don't think the entire thread about the pisstest was 'beyond the pale' (sorry to those who don't like that saying)

"Transphobic" posts were being deleted as per guidelines, and numbernames were throwing personal attacks all over the place. So delete as per guidelines, don't delete the whole thread.

And then there is yet another one, which is...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2679712-to-think-its-OK-for-a-guy-to-be-in-the-ladies-if-hes-with-his-daughter?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2680984-woman-moaning-at-me-swimming-changing-rooms-how-do-i-stop-her?

...and...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2679535-Forced-to-wee-in-front-of-a-trans-woman-no-not-a-bathroom-issue-consequences-of-gender-identity-trumping-biology?

Like Lurcio, I remember your post and thought you were brave, honest and insightful. I am a longstanding lurker on the feminism board and it has made a fundamental change in my perspective; not by making me a feminist but by reminding me of all the things i have come to take for granted. Lou, consider whether barrelling onto a board like this with the attitude of sticking up for transwomen, disabled "or what ever" is a thoughtful response or a kneejerk check-out-how-liberal-I-am one.

I know a transwoman who is struggling desperately with her identity and my heart breaks for her. This doesnt alter the fact that a woman has a vagina and a man or a pre-op transwoman has a penis, however much they may identify as a woman. I wish there were easy ways round everyday situations like loos but until there are male / female/free toilets it won't be and as women (not cis, or biological women) we need spaces that do not contain penises, however super they are in context and whoever they are attached to.

Bishop, it was a separate thread to the changing room one, it was about a piss test being done (the kind where they have to actually watch you pee) by a Mtt.

I know - I have both in my tio

I read this thread and contributed to it and I certainly didn't see anything offensive on it. People were politely asked to justify their statements and immediately started squeaking "transphobic".

ThreadandIlink - your perspective is badly needed. Sometimes MNHQ takes the decision to delete threads because they have turned into a bunfight. Often it's the wrong decision, I believe it was in this case. Please don't feel that you need to STFU about your lived experience.

Bishop, the thread in Site Stuff is about one about Dads bringing their children into the women's loos. The disabled loos were mentioned in that thread. Not the one being talked about here.

Threadandlink - . I remember your posts, I thought you spoke very eloquently about what you were being put through, and you have no need to feel small at all. I think you are a wonderfully strong and brave woman to speak out as you did.

venusinscorpio No not at all - when I was being accused of being 12 when I'm actually married with kids, and my spelling being brought into it, it's personal and not about the thread is it?!

Par for the course on MN I'm afraid. Get used to it. It doesn't normally get posts deleted, let alone whole threads.