MN deleted thread

What do you think living as a woman means?

Don't you see how this shows that you do think that being a woman is nothing more than hair and make up?

No it's me staring what the doctors told my transfeiend what he needs to do to be classed as a she! I said all along i was stating what doctors said and then got shot down for 'hiding behind doctors'

I wonder if the 'living as a woman' criteria are online anywhere. It would be interesting to see how it is defined. I'd put good money on it being utter crap. Mostly because it's not something women get a choice in. We don't get to have Saturday evening off if we're in the middle of our period.

Plus don't forget, as a woman, you will struggle to find many who have not received unwanted attention and/or harrasment either physically or sexually

"getting ready as a woman (I.e hair and make up)" Don't you see how this shows that you do think that being a woman is nothing more than hair and make up?

I don't do hair and makeup the vast majority if the time. Does this mean I'm not a woman? I also wear jeans most days. Am I a man?

There is no such thing as living as a woman, in my opinion, because there is no such thing as a typical woman. Women come in all shapes and sizes. There is no one size fits all. Yet 'living as a woman' appears to mean behaving like a Barbie doll come to life. It's all about the clothes, hair and makeup, because a man can't have periods, be pregnant, have a uterus, etc. Living as a woman should mean being paid less and living with street harassment from a very early age.

I don't know vestelvirgin I didn't once claim to be an expert I just posted my view point that transgender people didn't deserve to be spoken about like it and disrespected

Thing is that we cant talk about this without it turning nasty transphobia is quite prominent on mumsnet and a lot of comments can be perceived as hate speech this is why womens voices cant be heard imo people shouting so loudly about transpeople is silencing other women their voices and issues are being lost,

I was asked what living like a woman meant and I said the doctors terms of 'living like a woman' included waking with the mentality of being a woman, getting ready as a woman (I.e hair and make up)

And what do you think "waking with the mentality of being a woman" means? Don't hide behind doctors' terms.

What do you mean by "living as a woman"?

Being "more of a man" is a massively patriarchal notion. It means being strong, dominant etc when you shouldn't be because you are a woman or a boy. Not helping yourself Louw

I did not say that being a woman was hair and make up at all!! I was asked what living like a woman meant and I said the doctors terms of 'living like a woman' included waking with the mentality of being a woman, getting ready as a woman (I.e hair and make up)

Your idea of living like a woman is wearing make up, dresses and having long hair. Posters were simply pointing out that there are many females who don't do that so by your reckoning they must be men. You had no answer for that so you went on the attack. simple as that. Can you not see how that idea of 'womanhood' is outdated and sexist? I don't see how pointing that out is transphobia?

i have no grumbles with the way woman are treated to be honest!

Yes you've made that abundantly clear. Therein lies the problem of TA - women aren't seen to be as oppressed or important enough

Oh are feminists mean? Lol

Felascloak I'm not the one playing the victim am I!!!!!? Whatever, anyway I'm not wasting any more of my time talking or trying to reason with narrow minded bullies! Go moan about woman being treated second to men, i have no grumbles with the way woman are treated to be honest!

Convenient for you that the thread was deleted really.

I hate it when people come and play the victim on other threads. No one has anything to apologise to you for. Not our fault that you couldn't explain your perspective and we were only asking questions.
Clearly you do have a view what a woman is but you weren't willing to share and started venting instead.

And i was jumped on way before that comment or the bitches comment - hence me making them!

The comment I made about being more of a woman was like the term 'more of a man I'll ever be'.. Etc as in more grown up
I've apologised for insulting anyone but as yet had no apoligy from anyone! Says a lot to me tbh!

Lou once again you couldn't provide a proper explanation for what you said and insulted pretty much every other poster saying they were less of a woman than someone biologically male. You were 'jumped on' for that not for sticking up for trans people.

Feminism is not your problem here

WeMustSurelyBeLearning
Spelling, being 12, referring to how the doctors explain 'living as a woman' I was jumped on. Anyway as I said on another thread I will stay away from the feminists from now on.
I had a different view point
I tried my best to stick up for transgender
I got shot down for it not just disagred with iMo
I didn't report the thread or talk to anyone about it so others must have thought badly about it as well

lou absolutely no one on that thread said or thinks that trans women shouldn't have rights. Just that their rights shouldn't trump those of women. originally you said that trans should have 'more rights' btw.

So people disagreed with you, and you called them bitches and said that your trans friend was more woman than them. Sounds exactly what a misogynist would say so are you really surprised you got people's backs up? Aside from the 'are you 12 comment', I don't recall any personal attacks at you? More people disagreeing with you and asking you what living as a woman means.

The thread shouldn't have been deleted. It's just another example of women's voices on this issue being silenced

thread I heard what you had to say and remember you. I'm glad you spoke up and I admire your strength

Also thread/notwhat I have followed your story throughout threads, I think your story is critically important in the gender critical narrative. When we peg people as 'brave' for taking up gender stereotypes we forgot they often leave a family behind and the immense pain that comes with that is swept under the carpet, and I've even seen women on this site being criticised for not accepting their husband's sudden urge to wear a dress and make up. Behind all the fluff of "live and let live, it's 2016" there are people like you whose experiences are minimised. Yet again, women's feeling take a back seat. I think you're very brave and hope you come out of it happily

Anyway, these gender critical (NOT transphobic) discussions throw up some really valid points - such as what is defined 'woman' without a depressing sexist stereotype of nice hair and make up - and with every thread comes a new member saying "wow I didn't think of it like that". Challenging stereotypes, especially when it comes to women, is never a bad thing.

These discussion also educate people on the horrors on transactivism such as the horrific cotton ceiling concept. I'm disappointed MNHQ deleted the whole thread, I'm very worried this is the start of gender critical censorship.

As soon as I said they have rights I was heavily verbally attacked and penilised just because of how I felt on the matter

Give over. You told us we were all bitches when we asked what "living as a woman" meant, and told us a person born male was more of a woman than we were