MN deleted thread

Lou I actually found an article the other week regarding women and hospitals.

If a man went into hospital with stomach pains, they immediately look to see the cause. Appendix and the like.

If a woman was to go in, it can take up to 8 hours before the investigate as its put down to menstration issues at first.

Now that is a classic case of sexism. How is that fair or right? It isn't.

Perhaps this is interesting to those who wish to be trans allies; transwoman rants on the transing of kids:

Perhaps trans allies should take into consideration that this person is trans, too.
You cannot be an ally to all trans people. You could as well choose to be an ally to those who acknowledge reality.

What wanting said (very eloquently).

It sounds like you have been very lucky louw. I am glad it is possible to have that somewhere. Hopefully I can work towards my dd being able to take such things for granted too. In the meantime those of us who have been less lucky can perhaps see the need to support women even more damaged by the system more clearly, and rightly start complaining when yet another bunch of men turn up telling us to stop supporting women, and make yet more room for them instead - and, as typical males, start insulting us when we do not leap fast enough to comply.

Louw1988 - most of the discrimination women face is hidden. Living in a society where sexism exists on almost every level (as several mountains of research show that it does) means if you are an adult female it is almost impossible not to have experienced discrimination, even if you weren't aware of it happening. One example would be the fact that doctors and health care professionals have been found to take male people more seriously and to actually accept what they say they are experiencing more fully than is the case for women. So as a woman there will almost definitely have been times when you received suboptimal treatment - when you had to suffer symptoms for longer than a man would have simply because you were written off as probably exaggerating. There are many other ways in which you have undoubtedly been considered less than, worse than, not as good as a man by people without you ever having known it. Research shows that this happens throughout society and that we still have a long way to go even if we can't always see discrimination as it's happening.

With regard to "open to transgender people" I don't think it's fair to dismiss gender critical people as not being "open to transgender people". Very few on here want transgender people to face discrimination, ridicule or nastiness on account of how they choose to live their lives. We simply wish to have the right to be able to tell the truth about them in that a transman is female and a transwoman is male, by the definitions you will find in pretty much every dictionary and medical textbook out there. When people react in ways that you seem to deem "closed" it is rarely on account of prejudice but on account of the experiences we have had with the transgender community. The death threats, rape threats issued by transwomen to natal women are disturbing and inform many mumsnetters opinions about what this community wants and how they are trying to get it. Many started off with your opinions but have changed their minds on account of greater knowledge of what is currently going on in the trans community.

BungoWomble Your post really touched me then
I'm a woman but I have never felt that way and it saddens me to think anyone does
I suppose I've been lucky, I met my husband at 16 and have been happy ever since. We bicker don't get me wrong but he treats me like his equal, not delicately or like crap but equal. I've worked really hard to get where I have career wise and paid ver well - not more or less then my male colleagues as we all start on the same band and get raises depending on how long you've been there
Soon I hope to go it alone and my fees will be the same as any males

I was brought up in a well balanced home with both mum and dad working full time to provide so never experienced any discrimination for being a woman
I hope my children are the same
I think it does speak volumes though on why I'm so open to transgender people

Cote isn't usually far away

Everything I read about MtF transpeople has always stressed the hair and make up angle. It's just props for goodness sake. They have no idea, can have no idea, and that really demonstrates to me, more even than the sociobiological theory tbh, how the whole 'feels like a woman' is totally ludicrous.

I really liked cotedazur's post on the deleted thread - unfortunately it's deleted of course so I can't get at it now - about all the other types of body dysphoria, those people who really feel that they should have one less limb or really need to have steel bars inserted in their arms or whatever. No less real to the individual than gender dysphoria and every little bit as much an individual mental health problem. I don't suppose you're around to re-post it are you Cote?

Excellent post Bungo. It hasn't escaped my notice that in TW bid to be more womanly they aren't as willing to accept lower salaries and second-class citizenship. We'll be women but keep our male privelege please

"What do you think living as a woman means?"

I think it means: being treated as a dirty bit of tissue fit only for men to wank into and discard at their inclination. Being repeatedly told that every bad thing that men do in the world is the nearest woman's fault. Being told you are weak and vulnerable and therefore worthless when the truth is any one person is weak and vulnerable to a whole group of others, and the history of humanity and our evolution shows we are a social species. Being able to bear young and then getting shafted economically. Beyond that there are few commonalities between women. No hair or makeup choices, certainly.

I really have always struggled to understand why men want to become women to be perfectly honest. I have no trouble understanding transpeople the other way or the number of women on antidepressants.

I would C&P but I'd take the HQ respondent's name off the end of the email. Especially if they're new to HQ.

I feel for one of the new people today as they must have had the day at work from hell viz the Serena Williams thread and the one being discussed here. They're still learning the role and it can't be easy to have your new-to-the-role work decisions/mistakes discussed publically.

I think so Olenna, I know I've certainly done it before?

Is it OK to C&P emails received from MNHQ in response to reported threads, or is that considers Bad Form?

Agree that the serena thread is awful. to MNHQ decision making tonight

MNHQ can you please explain why the weeing in front of a TW thread had to be deleted, but the serena one has been allowed to stand?

Our delicate ladybrains must be all confunded because it's not clear to a number of us.

Thanks.

Well, yes, because she's black AND female, so double whammy of below the men.

That serena thread is exceptionally offensive imo.
Obviously it's ok to speculate that a black female athlete is really a fella. But not ok to call a male bodied person born and raised a man a man

And yet the 'does Serena Williams have an Adams apple' thread is still there, including the poster where the OP said she thought Serena 'was a fella'.

And someone has posted on that thread that HQ have replied to a report to say they don't like deleting threads because it's censorship!

Unless it's a thread about transwomen, clearly.

Don't blame you herm. I wonder if there's a trigger happy newbie at hq and they're doing the Borg thing like NYE?

God, yes, feeling like a woman. As if anyone can say how that feels. Which is why 'born in the wrong body' is balls. I'm a size 22. If I start 'feeling like Claudia Schiffer' does that mean in a year I'm actually a supermodel? No. Because even if I lost ten stone, dyed my hair blonde and changed me name to Claudia Schiffer I would still be transferred Claudia and not actually her.

I have threads which are much more offensive that have been allowed to stand.

I'm really pissed off.

LilacSpunkMonkey Personally I would say it's being known as a woman by others. There is no physical way someone can be a woman if they were not born a woman I know that and said that before but I don't think it was right that people were being so rude about people born in the wrong body
I was tired and it was the day of my late brothers wedding anniversary so I was emotional - no excuse for what I called other people or said when I said 'more a woman then you' but I WAS being spoken to like something they had just trod in!

Actually I don't mind "living as a woman" (although I think it's bollox as women aren't a borg) because at least it shows some commitment to a change.
It's "feeling like a woman" as the only criteria I object to. Totally meaningless.

Don't forget the fabulous comment (I don't think it was from Lou though) about a trans man "with tattoos and facial piercings".

I am a man.

imo people shouting so loudly about transpeople is silencing other women their voices and issues are being lost,

Which issues are being silenced because people on mumsnet discuss trans issues?