feminist views of TTC?

I was never addressed as a girl either when we went though IVF. Always Ms Banana or "Stealth". And actually I think the process is very woman centric - I noticed the paperwork actually only cares about what responsibility the owner of the sperm has towards the mother - thus every form distinguishes between a husband, a de facto male partner and a sperm donor situation. It's only interested in the woman whose womb is the subject of treatment. I think that's quite narrow but I understand why. And there's no distinction between using a sperm donor as a single woman or as half of a same sex couple. It makes sense as to why.

Pregnancy, on the other hand, is a shitball of twee stereotypes about women, I think premised on the idea that pregnancy & motherhood are the pinnacle of female achievement so all is sunshine & unicorns regardless of the multiple indignities of pregnancy. Spare me!

Were not we're.

Sperm test was the first thing all doctors looked at with us- it's pretty obvious. And as I said before nobody at our fertility clinic ever called me a "girl"- I was simply addressed by my name, as was my husband (nobody called him Sir either). Those we dealt with did not try to infantilise medical terminology either, but we're still able to explain in layman's terms. Going by this thread I feel we were in a parallel universe fertility-wise.

I read an article a while ago - can't remember where - which said that male infertility is often the last thing to be tested for when a couple is under-investigation. The article posed that this was anti-man, focusing on the woman, but I felt it more anti-woman, assuming that women cause the problem, and putting them through lots of invasive tests before asking for a sperm sample.

I'm trying to work through this in my head.. but.. I think it's something to do with 'ladies' or 'girls' being used to erase me as a person. You would never walk into a room and say 'hello women' and is that because it's a more formal term? Less patronising?

Eg. a midwife talking about 'her ladies' lumps everyone together rather than them all being individuals, it trivialises it somehow.

I think it's different in a medical setting to among friends too.

This isn't properly formed in my head yet - it'll probably come together about 2am tomorrow morning

I think medicalised and scientific in a fertility setting CAN be very upsetting for some people.
People tend to take fertility for granted when they're young - it's just a natural thing you 'should' be able to do, and when things don't work out an overly medicalised setting can just reinforce people's feelings of 'failure.' This has been the feeling of friends I've known undergoing treatment.

I think there is more stigma attached to make infertility, but I also think that women are far more used to a) invasive medical procedures, and b) talking to other women about their health and bodies.

I don't think the clinic staff are doing anything wrong in trying to make the experience more personable and informal.

I think there's something a little odd in adult women referring to their 'auntie flo'. It's as if we're distancing ourselves from our bodies a little. I don't know if that's embarrassment, or part of a wider tendency in society to be patronising to women in the context of motherhood.

I just don't agree

We give many things in life nicknames. Sometimes it's just a friendly way to talk about stuff. I say 'willy' rather than 'penis' - I'm not being patronising to men, it's just colloquial speech.

I think the trend you are speaking of in a fertility setting is similar. It's an attempt at friendly colloquialism, which for many people will make the process seem less medicalised and scientific. I don't have a problem with being referred to as a girl - if I go out with my girlfriends I say I'm out with the girls. It's friendly.

"Gendered" in this context may not be referring to male/female/trans but to stereotypes. Hopefully the PP will be able to elaborate when she has time

I don't see the feminist issue here. Not saying there isn't one - I just don't see it.

I think something such as fertility should be gendered. The ever increasing notion that we can't call a woman a woman and a man a man etc is worrying.

Also baby dancing and baby dust are just awful and twee and not AT ALL used on mumsnet

MN doesn't seem to go I for the really bizarre terminology that surrounds TTC on other boards. I wonder if people self-select which websites they use?

Most of the time, other than formal speech, when "ladies and gentlemen" is traditional used as introductory/attention-getting phrase, there is simply no need to address people by sex.

If you need to specify men, which might happen around procedures where there are biological difference, it 's better to just call them "men" not "boys" or "gentlemen". That's unexceptional, isn't it? Ditto for women.

Absolutely. I don't have time to post properly right now but I went through fertility investigations and it was very gendered. There's a lot of gendered language too.

But it has to be sexed doesn't it? There's no point investigating a male for pregnancy issues or a woman for sperm ones - why on earth obscure that.

On the other hand, the assumption that the partner is the opposite sex could easily be changed. Yes, it matters if you're male or female, but it doesn't matter if the non-pregnant-to-be partner is male or female apart from which services to offer.

You might be interested in Karen Throsby's work on feminism and infertility.

Karen is Associate Professor at the University of Leeds and tweets @thelongswim.

was it MN that renamed Baby Dancing to Shagging with Intent?

What are 'baby dust'and 'baby dancing'?.Or should I just guess ?
I think I'd have been nonplussed if anyone used those terms to me

Baby dust and baby dancing are horrifically twee and not popular on the MN conception chat boards.

We had several rounds of IVF and not once did anyone at the clinic refer to me or address me as a girl. Perhaps you need to change clinics. Guy's in London were good.

Good point about the age thing; for many couples, it will have been a while of trying before reaching that point.