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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Where do I start?

39 replies

Petal40 · 21/06/2016 22:29

I posted on the chat bit asking if it was possible to be a stay at home mum and a feminist....got directed over here...had a look around ,but where do I start.can anyone recommend any good radfem books? Articles? Websites? Thanks in advance

OP posts:
scallopsrgreat · 22/06/2016 10:24

I also think it is worth saying that Feminism has never really been about choice. It's about women's rights and freedom from oppression. Choice is a by-product of that but as others have said that comes with its own nuances and problems.

BertrandRussell · 22/06/2016 10:16

Yes, the "feminism is about choice" thing makes me very uneasy too. It's important to acknowledge that a choice does not automatically become feminist because a woman makes it.

BertrandRussell · 22/06/2016 10:14

Petal- don't lurk. Hold your nose and jump! Grin

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 22/06/2016 10:12

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erinaceus · 22/06/2016 10:08

I found radical feminism easier to picture the day I realised that the radical means solving problems at the root. Then, I realised that I am a radical feminist, although I am not all radical feminists.

LurcioAgain · 22/06/2016 09:59

One really important strand in a lot of feminist thought, particularly radical feminist thought, is decoupling the value of work from its financial rewards within a capitalist system. Caring work in particular is often very low paid (care workers in old people's homes) or not paid at all (SAHM, women caring for elderly relatives in the community). Choosing to be a SAHM because you believe this is the best choice for your children at this particular stage in their lives is a perfectly valid choice even if it's one which is undervalued by society.

What I do think we need to do as feminists is talk about how to restructure society to protect women against possible adverse effects of this decision. For instance, in the event of divorce (or even more so, the breakup of an unmarried partnership), SAHM are incredibly vulnerable financially. I would like to see some sort of legal recognition that where a woman (or for that matter man) has sacrificed earning potential and employability for the benefit of the family unit as a whole, in the event of a break-up they should get some sort of compensation for lost earnings. And putting more schemes in place to enable parents to re-train/get back up to speed once their children are school age. And making flexible working more the norm.

(For instance, one thing I'd really like a bigger discussion of is what the culture of full-time work, i.e. 37 hours plus a week, as the default, is mean to achieve. There's excellent evidence-based writing on this to suggest that a culture of long-hours presenteeism is actually counter-productive, see for example this summary of Robinson's famous "why crunch mode doesn't work" article, or the full article here. I suspect presenteeism actually functions as an institutionalised form of exclusion, exluding workers not because of lower productivity, but because they have demonstrated by their life choices that they don't put their employer above all other things in life. And that's something we can and should push back against).

As an aside, I think the "feminism is about choices" claim often confuses the necessary and the sufficient. A necessary condition of judging whether (in some mythical future society) feminism has been successful in achieving its aims would be that women have the same range of choices open to them as men. However, that isn't the same as claiming that a choice being made by a woman is sufficient to establish that choice as a feminist action. The action chosen could be neutral (choosing to have a cheese sandwich rather than a bacon one) or even anti-feminist (campaigning to restrict other women's access to birth control for instance).

chunkymum1 · 22/06/2016 09:54

I think it is perfectly possible to be a feminist and a SAHM. As PPs have said, feminism is all about choice (by which feminists mean real choice- not doing something because although there is no rule against a mum having other roles there are in practice invisible barriers). In my view, a feminist does not have to be conquering the barriers to choice in order to call herself a feminist- she just needs to see that they are there and believe that this is a bad thing.

So a SAHM could be a feminist because she has made a real choice to take that role- so she is a feminist and happy with her role as SAHM. Or she could be a feminist who is a SAHM because she feels that this is the best/most practical solution for her/her family given the existing barriers to other roles, even though she would like things to be different.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 22/06/2016 09:37

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BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 22/06/2016 09:30

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redannie118 · 22/06/2016 09:07

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns, and so we've agreed to take this down now.

Petal40 · 22/06/2016 09:00

Thanks herty...I'm going to look at getting those books and the feminist pub...I will lurk till I feel feel comfortable posting

OP posts:
Petal40 · 22/06/2016 08:59

Erinaceus,I suppose I'm thinking I can't be both ,or I wouldn't of posed the question....I feel like I've been in a fog for years and I'm just waking up and looking at the world feeling is this it? A woman's worth? And wondering where to start...

OP posts:
DetestableHerytike · 22/06/2016 05:58

Hi Petal

Yes, it's certainly possible to be a SAHM and a feminist.

Delusions of Gender is often recommeneded and is a great book. Wifework may also be helpful to you.

erinaceus · 22/06/2016 04:56

Welcome Petal40

I have lurked on this board for a long time and only started posting recently.

You asked where to start and that is a difficult question to answer. Maybe start where you are? For example you asked whether it is possible to be a SAHM and a feminist. What do you think?

There is a feminist pub on this board, that is quite a good place to start.

Feminist pub thread