Pakistan religious leader thinks "light beating" is a good way to get your wife to do as she's told

Where my family are in the ME, if a husband hit his wife she would most likely lamp him back, call her mum, his mum and the whole family would like in and have a go at him. Culturally, it is not acceptable and God help you if you raised a hand to a woman or elderly person

Do we live in the same place? But that aside women here can also access the legal system where clear laws against this kind of thing are in place.

Thanks Kindogstail.

As far as I can see all religion is written by men for the purposes of men. I've never really been able to get past that.

When DS was a commando in Afghanistan his unit's role was to weed out the Taliban and/ or their weapons from their mountain tunnels and other strongholds. The devastation and sheer horror in that country is too much to describe here really, but it's the women and children who suffered most. Everywhere they were endlaved, raped or used as human shields. I would not describe the Taliban as Muslims or even humans, but in the midst of all this, DS read the Koran to see if it could make sense of it all. It didn't and never will.

I despair at the world I really do.

The more I read/see the more I think half of the world's population is pure batshit and wonder if that's how the rule of humans in earth will end. Not a nice meteor like the Dinosaurs. Bloody stupid men and their willies (let's face it, it all boils down to men and their willies).

God seriously needs to do a recall on some of his creations...

I wonder where they stand on 'light poisining' of dear wife beater by the wife?

Probably the same as the "20 minutes of action" rape apologist would react to a "1 second of action" murder defense. (If a man cannot be convicted of rape because he only raped the woman for 20 minutes, then I shouldn't be convicted of murder for shoothing him. I mean, that takes 2 seconds, tops!)
Like, they would invent a reason why this is totally different.

Well considering it's commonplace to burn people, chuck acid on and rape women, I think a light beating is actually pretty moderate

Amaia10
Your experiences when you were there were extraordinary. I am so glad you were just about all right. It was lucky you were able to be Mrs Yeti - Searcher to keep yourself reasonably out of bounds of their nasty assumptions.

Did you see Zorba the Greek where they were all going berserk about a woman once she was a widow as they all wanted to get her for themselves, then they stoned her?

It does not seem to have got better at all.

I had heard of the Surrendered wives but not the Obedient ones in Malaysia.

KindDogs - I agree, the TakeninHand movement may well appeal to a certain type of fundamentalist Christian. It sounds all fairly similar to the surrendered wives movement (founded by a woman in the U.S.). Takes all kinds, I guess! I think some people may initially get off on this kind of thing, but do wonder how long it can actually last.

Of course there's always the "Obedient Wives Club" founded in Malaysia which now claims to have tens of thousands of members worldwide - in which husbands can expect their wives (up to 4 of them) to be totally obedient, act as "top class prostitutes" in the bedroom and naturally beat them as they see fit.

In my twenties I spent 18 months teaching English in a remote village in The Northwest Frontier Province in Pakistan. It's one of the most scenically beautiful places I have ever been - unfortunately women are not visible outside of the house. I ended up having to pretend I was married to a Spanish man who was there to look for a kind of yeti and was staying in the same compound as us - just to be able to get out and about! Tbh most of the men in the village had never seen a woman outside of their own family, so they had no idea how to react to an unknown woman in the street. In the 18 months I spent in Northern Pakistan I narrowly escaped being raped by a man who jumped through the roof into a shower cubicle I was in and there were 2 other serious incidents. It was the small day to day things too, like bus drivers who advised me to buy two seats on the bus so you can be more sure of not getting groped. This was 20 years ago now, but not sure if things will have got any better.

Flipping phone....
Dishing out the law which includes revenge gang rape of a third party, then there will be no safety for women.

I wonder where they stand on 'light poisining' of dear wife beater by the wife?

As long as they tolerate the system of Neanderthal self appointed all makle village elders dishing out the law

Beating your wife/partner is wrong full stop. If my partner thought he would try to beat me,even lightly,he would find himself and his belongings outside the front door PDQ.

I have just started reading a book about ... well, technically, it is about Islam and how the male believers of that religion treat women, but so far, I've only read the chapter(s) on Pakistan.

Must say, that country is ... unredeemable. The percentage of men there that would have to be killed if there's to be ever any hope for civilisation must be above 50%.
Obviously, as killing women is totally legal there as long as her father forgives the murderer. (And since the father often IS the murderer ... you can see where this is going)
The men in government think that's totally a good thing. And the women in government ... well, there are no women in government. The alleged women in government are all straw-women for their male relatives, apparently.

I think if my country declared war to Pakistan on grounds of the human rights violations, I'd be on board with it ... and I'm usually a pacifist.
But there's limits to what you can do with activism and education.

Amaia
What you say is so sad: that that sort of news is just the tip of the iceberg in those parts of the world you and your husband came to know.

I think the Taken in Hand movement is totally different as some women actively choose this kind of relationship,
I agree. It is a sort of sick fantasy, Mills and Boon style, that may be adopted by some women and men, out of choice.

I think though that some of the Taken in Hand, are also linked with fundamentalist Christianity US style too.

Felascloak
Some of the fundamentalist Christians also scare me about this.
Eg carm.org/apologetics/womens-issues/what-does-it-mean-wife-submit-her-husband

I agree. This is part of that link you sent. This follows on from a paragraph that it is God's will:
A woman therefore does not submit because her husband deserves it in his own merit- she submits because she knows it is pleasing to her Lord. There will be times when a woman needs to submit, and her husband does not deserve it from a human perspective. But by divine right, God set the man as leader and a woman can trust that God is good. She can also know that nothing escapes God’s notice, and a wicked man will be held accountable for his actions

So a wicked husband can do what ever he likes. The woman must submit no matter what it is. Never mind. God will be pleased with her and punish him later when he is dead!

I think the Taken in Hand people can be fundamentalist Christians as well.
It is such a dangerous idea.

Where my family are in the ME, if a husband hit his wife she would most likely lamp him back, call her mum, his mum and the whole family would like in and have a go at him. Culturally, it is not acceptable and God help you if you raised a hand to a woman or elderly person.

Of course I'm sure if you go out to B-F-nowhere it may be less frowned upon, especially if they decide to cite religious reasons to suit the purpose.

There are countries where women have always (pre Islam and beyond) been treated as the lowest creatures on earth, and basically disposable.

Agree with what others have said above. It is stated in the Koran that husbands may lightly beat their wives if certain other tactics are seen to have failed. As the Koran is the direct word of Allah, it's not at all surprising that certain Islamic clerics will reiterate this view.

My husband spent years in combat in Afghanistan. I have also spent quite a lot of time in Pakistan and, as Original Mavis says, this kind of news is sadly just the tip of the iceberg. As long as women are prisoners within their own homes, their stories will continue to go untold.

I think the Taken in Hand movement is totally different as some women actively choose this kind of relationship. There are no cultural or religious expectations on them, nor are they forced into anything through fear.

Pretty - you'd get in trouble for beating a dog.

Original what you say is so true.

Tbh, I'm surprised this is even 'news'. I thought it would be obvious that other cultures treat women like pets.

Quickly
Taken in Hand seems to be going on still so I'm not sure what you mean. And it seems to include the idea of 'light beating' , just as the Pakistani religious leader advocates, but in the USA I presume.

That taken in hand rubbish is mentioned every now and again, but it hasn't been active in YEARS..

In reading this thread I suddenly remembered seeing something very odd by chance on the internet called Taken in Hand.

surrendered.blog.com/taken-in-hand-relationship/

I wondered if anyone had stumbled across the extraordinary
Taken in Hand movement? It follows the idea of a woman voluntarily submitting to everything her husband says as a matter of course. It can include punishment. It seems to be a way of trying to think into life the fantasy of the big strong Captain or Doctor type of a Mills and Boon story. A man who will decide everything for you and take all your troubles away and punish you for your misdeeds. Like a Mr Darcy (gone wrong).

The man will feel big by default and will never be challenged by his wife whatever he does.

After reading in the paper today about a 7 month pregnant woman in Pakistan having her throat cut by her parents and brother for marrying someone they didn't want her to, there really isn't anything more that can horrify me about people, there really isn't.

There are, and have been cultures where it unmanly not to have control of your wife, your animals etc as in the Taming of the Shrew. We are lucky here not all men think that.

For anyone who read Elena Ferranti's Naples books, isn't the description of how a man treats his young wife [the heroine] utterly chilling? It must have been the norm.