Where do you stand on banning the sex trade?

It wouldn't be just condoms, Kara. It should be gloves, plastic aprons etc.

Equality laws - no discrimination on age, pregnancy, skin colour or disability. Will that work?

Benefits - if a woman turns down a sex work job, should her benefits be suspended? If it's just work.

My best friend works as an escort. I dont think its healthy and yes i do believe it stems from issues she has and makes them worse. The thing is though it could be made so much safer for her if it were completely legal. I understand the argument made that the danger is from the men who think that its ok to buy sex but i think that weather it is legal or not prostitution will still be taking place for the foreseeable future and if it is legal then much more can be done to protect the women doing it right now. I also think if it were legal it would be easier to talk about, i know it would be for her and actually i think that would be really helpful to her. She does work which is harming her but then has the added psychological pressure of it being illegal and everyone judging her. I think she gets trapped in a loop of low self esteem where she cant talk about it and cant feel good about herself apart from when shes doing it or with other people who are doing it. Its incredibly isolating and alienating.

Fundamentally, I don't have a problem with a woman (or a man) privately exchanging sex for money, if they are genuinely willing. None of my business, as it were. Although, on a personal level, it assaults my feminist principles that people would be having, basically, unwanted sex, because they need the money.

However, I do have a problem with the gendered nature of prostitution - and it's impact on sexual equality of women.

I also have a problem with the legality and social acceptability of men (and it is mainly men) buying people (mainly women, and worse, girls) for sex. It makes women a valuable commodity. And then you get into the trafficking. That's my problem.

Anything that 'can' be sold, will be. Women are bought and sold in organised sex-trafficking criminal gangs, and this hugely escalates in places of lawlessness (eg, the former Yugoslavia, just after the war) or where it is legalised (eg Germany) where it can be passed off as voluntary.

Watch the Whistleblower on Netflix.

OP Do you think "banning" or making prostitution fully illegal will reduce levels of prostitution?

Where prostitution is fully illegal like Russia, Eastern Europe, Africa, there is still a "thriving" sex trade industry. In Russia you get a lot of bribery and corruption between police and gangsters who run business, WGs are fined when they are caught but are often given cash to bribe police with so they can get back to work.

The sex work situation in Africa is too horrible, and the fact prostitutes are criminals there makes their lives far worse.

It's good to see an increasing acceptance of the Nordic Model across Europe. It doesn't work to reduce levels of sex trade like you might think, but basically prostitutes themselves under this model are far safer than under fully legal or fully illegal models. It forces the punters to think about and own their actions, and take responsibility.

The most notable successes of the Nordic Model are in reducing street prostitution which is the lowest paid and most dangerous work. I'd also take trafficking figures with a pinch of salt, though. Traffickers go where they have connections, which are sometimes fairly "high up".

Why, don't condoms work? That's news to me. Bring on the sex work health and safety regs I say.

Besides, do you know what there is stopping people exchanging consent to sex for money? Nothing. You or I could do it right now, as do thousands of women and men in this country already.

As unpalatable as that may be, I do not believe that they are doing anything wrong and so they should not be in fear of the law. They should know that they can report rape/violence etc without being prosecuted themselves.

Lass i have to say that article made me less torn. Thank you for that and for not flaming me

The dangers faced by sex workers are there because of the legal status of sex work

It is not illegal to sell sex. The dangers faced by sex workers are there because of the mindset of the men who use prostitutes.

Have you read the article I posted? That describes what happens when prostitution is legitimised. Please do not dismiss that article because it is from The Telegraph - you will find The Guardian and the BBC saying exactly the same.

Karalime

A sex worker following a health and safety regime consistent with, say, a medical professional, would need to wear protective gear in line with the bodily fluids that could otherwise touch her skin.

I doubt that would work.

I'm for decriminalisation.

I do not want to see sex work become a normalised career path for women. However, the current situation is crap. I've dealt with sex workers in my job and it has made me think differently.

The dangers faced by sex workers are there because of the legal status of sex work. The rest of us can go about our day, in our offices without the threat of violence, rape, harassment, non payment etc. Sex workers can't, trafficked or not.

A sex worker can choose their clients much like any other business person. However, being illegal and all, trafficked women in brothels don't have much recourse.

Whether someone is being employed looking after your kids, plastering your hallway or having sex with you, they all deserve the same rights imo.

Exactly that, Lass.

In fact it was put beautifully by the Swedish police: "you cannot have equality of the sexes when a man can buy sex on his way home from work. That is not equality"

I just plain don't want to live in a country where women's bodies are for sale. It's the whole attitude that goes with that.
Prostitution not only affects the prostituted women. It also feeds men's sense of entitlement. Which in turn influences how they treat women

That's it exactly. It doesn't just affect the prostitutes and their punters.

I think first we need to do more to stop the circumstances that drive people to it. The porn stars right at the top of the worker end don't concern me as much as the vast majority who are only in the sex trade because they are desperate and don't feel as if they have a choice.

Well, obviously. Sweden had already a social state in place, so they started from a position where poverty wasn't a problem, not with regard to Swedish citizens, at least.

The system would likely not work in the US.

We will see how it works in France - only thing I read about it was that French men now drive to Germany to use prostituted women.

Apart from the trafficking issue, I just plain don't want to live in a country where women's bodies are for sale. It's the whole attitude that goes with that.
Prostitution not only affects the prostituted women. It also feeds men's sense of entitlement. Which in turn influences how they treat women.

Even if she had sex at every party you went to, Really, she still selected which man to sleep with, he was probably within an age range she found attractive, and she got to choose which sex acts she did.

None of the above applies to prostitution.

Swedish model is the best.

I'm torn too. I don't want prostitution legalised, but a blind eye turned when it comes to any negative legal ramifications for the prostitute herself. With everyone else involved treated like the vile criminal they are.

As for the sex trade, my concern with making it illegal would be the workers themselves not coming forward.

I think first we need to do more to stop the circumstances that drive people to it. The porn stars right at the top of the worker end don't concern me as much as the vast majority who are only in the sex trade because they are desperate and don't feel as if they have a choice.

I support the Swedish model, for the pure reason that it decreases trafficking - and trafficking of women/girls is the main reason I'm against prostitution.

Traffickers in general do not operate in Sweden - they operate in places where it is legalised.

Since Germany liberalised its laws, trafficking has gone up dramatically. It has also totally failed in its intention of making prostitutes safer and giving them health checks and employment protection:

I hope you aren't eating, because you'll want to vomit:

There's also flatrate brothels. If I were optimistic, I would assume the women there are paid by the brothel owner, but I think it is much more likely that they're just enslaved.

Lass i don't know how to explain without sounding awful and callous,but she never said no. Like we'll be outside on the benches,chatting,and some guy(admittedly we knew most of them) would come and ask her to go with him. She'd b back 20 mins later and say she shagged him. If she went for a movie,or a coffee or whatever in someone's house she'd end up having sex,regardless if there where other people in the house or not.

That doesn't seem like a healthy attitude to me.

Besides, her right to earn money that way does not top other women's right to not be trafficked.

And as to the fall of trafficking in Sweden, is that a fall in trafficking or a fall in reporting?

Why would there be a fall in reporting? Being a prostituted woman is not illegal in Sweden.
Prostitution is never underground. That's what many women who got out of prostitution say, and it makes sense. The online presence means they are not underground. The police can find them.

Sure, SOME trafficking could go on underground. It would, however, then be similar to child porn - still there, but not nearly as big an influence on overall society, and limited to invitation only circles.

I also entirely agree with lass on this - read that article and tell me that is a world you want to live in, where doing that to women is acceptable.

I think that the least harm to the most people applies here, and that 'it has always happened' is no excuse. Murder has always happened, and that's illegal.

Lass i don't know how to explain without sounding awful and callous,but she never said no. Like we'll be outside on the benches,chatting,and some guy(admittedly we knew most of them) would come and ask her to go with him. She'd b back 20 mins later and say she shagged him. If she went for a movie,or a coffee or whatever in someone's house she'd end up having sex,regardless if there where other people in the house or not.

But i do get your point and maybe you're right. Maybe it is just a way to rationalise and justify a decision that wasn't really a decision

I saved this article from the last time this subject came up.

Welcome to Paradise: inside the world of legalised prostitution
s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/welcome-to-paradise/

I had a friend that honestly wanted to do this. She was sleeping with a lot of guys anyways,that's what she liked and what she wanted so she decided she might as well get paid for it

The "I love it so much I might as well get paid for it" scenario always strikes me as a bit of a canard.

I had a few wild years in my younger days but the men involved were without exception gorgeous/charming/attractive mentally and physically (well seemed so at the time anyway)and my choice.

I'm sceptical that if I had been turning half a dozen tricks a night every single one is a man I'd have been delighted to sleep with.

Interesting re trafficking. So reporting of trafficking in Germany has increased because people are not afraid of being arrested? And as to the fall of trafficking in Sweden, is that a fall in trafficking or a fall in reporting? Certainly quick google searches show that the online presence of sex workers in Sweden seems pretty high. Sex work is underground so any claims about rise and falls of any thing need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

What a relief. Lass is here.

Everything she says on this subject I agree with.

I agree with Lass.

The two models at the extreme ends of the spectrum adopted across Europe are broadly speaking, the German model which legalises buying, pimping, and brothel-keeping, and the Swedish model which criminalizes the buying of sex (pimps and punters are criminalised, prostitutes themselves are not).

Since Germany liberalised its laws, trafficking has gone up dramatically. It has also totally failed in its intention of making prostitutes safer and giving them health checks and employment protection: the mega-brothels operate as something akin to hotels, and the prostitutes as "independent contractors" - so a typical prostitute has to turn about 3 tricks simply to pay the room hire for the night, without getting the equivalent of national insurance, sick pay or pension rights. The brothel owners make massive profits, prostitution overall has gone up and the prostitutes are still exploited and have little to no legal employment rights. In contrast, in Sweden, trafficking has gone down.