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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Attitudes to Hillary Clinton

80 replies

Felascloak · 08/06/2016 17:14

Been reading the Beebs coverage of Hillary Clintons nomination today (and the comments on HYS) and I'm pretty disgusted. Very little support for her as the first female nominee. Loads of disparaging comments about her marriage. Suggestions on nepotism

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36475840

And to top it off the BBC have a video about how she "must own her inner bitch".

Ffs. What is the male equivalent of an "inner bitch" and do men ever have to own it?

I couldn't give a shit about her politics, surely it is to be celebrated that a woman has got to this stage for the first time? Compare with all the excitement about Obama.
Today is one of those days where the world's sexism has slapped me in the face Sad
Apologies for the rant

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bridgetoc · 09/06/2016 22:24

Good old Maggie.....

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/06/2016 21:06

I think you confusing Lenin with Stalin
The latter was responsible for soviet union atrocities.Lenin was an idealistic,no doubt greatest revolutionist of 20th century

No I am not confusing the 2.

NoodleEatingPoodle · 09/06/2016 20:55

He has said all along that he would do everything possible to help Clinton get elected if she was the nominee. It's not a surprise that he's still saying that now as the primaries are drawing to a close.

NoodleEatingPoodle · 09/06/2016 20:54

His name is Sanders, not Saunders.

Clinton is not a socialist AT ALL. She has repeatedly supported and praised the economic policies of the other Clinton presidency and has even indicated that as President she would "put Bill in charge of the economy" because of what a great job he did with it in the 90s. Bill Clinton signed into law the Republican drafted "Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act" Angry which essentially dismantled the New Deal, imposed 5-year lifetime limits on the receipt of welfare, prohibited people with felony drug convictions from ever receiving food stamps, and barred welfare benefits for immigrants for the first five years of their residence in the country.

Sanders' view is that inequality and economic injustice produces poverty, and that the economic system needs to be overhauled to ensure access to a decent education, health care, housing, and living wage for everyone as a baseline. The Clinton view (and I think it's equally true of either Clinton) is that the poor need to take "personal responsibility." HRC is strong on healthcare, but on the other issues of economic inequality she has a poor record of progressive positions.

She's far, far more hawkish than Sanders too. And far less strong on environmental issues.

I think that equal representation of women (in government, in society, in life) is every bit as important an issue as economic justice, world peace, and stopping climate change. I think it's entirely valid to say "I don't love everything about her policy positions, but it is long past time for a woman president so I'm voting for Hillary." I nearly said that myself in the primaries, and I will be 100% behind her in the general election.

Hillary Clinton is extremely smart, experienced, capable, and prepared for the presidency. She is many million times a better option than the GOP nightmare.

But the Democratic party has shifted ever rightward (as has the Republican party), and Bill Clinton's neoliberal presidency, with Hillary as an unofficial cabinet member and his closes advisor, represents for many hundreds of thousands of progressives the point at which their party left them and their ideals of economic justice behind. There are very good reasons why people (like me) who are desperate to see a woman president, would still vote for Bernie over Hillary, and want him to stay in as long as possible, in order to continue giving voice to the progressive base, and influence the party platform coming out of the National Convention.

If Elizabeth Warren had run, the progressives wouldn't have to choose between their desire to vote for a woman, and almost every other progressive value. I wish she had run. I bet Sanders would have bowed out very early if Warren was in the race and looked to have a chance. Sanders and Warren are ideological twins, and I hope that Hillary might choose her as running mate to consolidate the party and bring in Bernie's voters. In which case, Bernie's decision to run against Clinton in the primary and to energise the progressive base, will have been the catalyst for an all-woman ticket going into the general election.

Now that would be something to get excited about.

SenecaFalls · 09/06/2016 20:49

Elendon From your lips to Bernie's ears. Smile

www.cnn.com/2016/06/09/politics/bernie-sanders-washington/index.html

Elendon · 09/06/2016 19:41

And Saunders, give it up already. And show some support.

Elendon · 09/06/2016 19:34

I'm with Dowager.

But I will go further

GO HILARY! You absolutely rock.

I know a Republican who thinks Clinton is more socialist than Saunders! Their vote is for Trump. Even though they think he is ridiculous.

TheDowagerCuntess · 09/06/2016 19:06

Being married to a previous president is no more or less an advantage than any of the advantages other candidates/past presidents have brought to the table.

She is the only one who has been married to a previous president, because she is the only woman who's even run. I don't understand why this particular 'advantage' would be singled out over and above any other.

I doubt she will blaze a trail. Thatcher didn't either.

We're supposed to have one woman make it, and be satisfied with that. In the eyes of many, this is equality. Hmm

DetestableHerytike · 09/06/2016 18:18

Clinton has absolutely served her time in her own right though, from junior to senior political positions. bill was president 1992-2000, 16 years have gone past during which his star has faded and her career progressed. Only 8 years separate the Bushes, fyi.

ftw · 09/06/2016 17:55

Yes, of course running for president is difficult or we'd all be doing it. Grin

I know they're overwhelmingly privileged and nepotism is not new, but she was married to a president. I do not believe at all that HC would be nominee now had BC not been president, not through any personal failing on her part, just because of the patriarchy the US political system.

Yes, I do see Obama's election as an achievement for black people and it's different IMO because he wasn't married to a president.

And I don't believe the analogy with black leaders mentioned above holds up because where there have been black leaders it has been (AFAIK) mostly of nations where black is the majority/indigenous population, which is obviously not the same as being elected president of a country where all the privilege still rests with white people.

(Sorry if incoherent. Tea time.)

Bue · 09/06/2016 17:22

Apart from having been married to a president I don't particularly see how her circumstances are much different to those of any other presidential candidate. They're overwhelmingly a privileged bunch. I'm curious if you saw Obama's election as an achievement for black people ftw?

SenecaFalls · 09/06/2016 17:17

But, because of her circumstances, I don't believe she's blazed a trail others can follow or smashed a glass ceiling or that equality has been achieved or any of those other things that would be worth a huge celebration IMO.

What circumstances are you talking about? Of course equality has not been achieved, but do you have any idea how difficult it is for anyone to make a run for the presidency in the US? Multiply that difficulty tenfold for a women, no matter her circumstances.

ftw · 09/06/2016 16:51

Let me try again.

I'm pleased there is a female nominee. But, because of her circumstances, I don't believe she's blazed a trail others can follow or smashed a glass ceiling or that equality has been achieved or any of those other things that would be worth a huge celebration IMO.

Which maybe makes it all the more remarkable an achievement for her personally but not for womankind in general.

princessmi12 · 09/06/2016 16:31

LassWiTheDelicateAir

I think you confusing Lenin with Stalin
The latter was responsible for soviet union atrocities.Lenin was an idealistic,no doubt greatest revolutionist of 20th century

Felascloak · 09/06/2016 16:29

bue exactly. Great post, thank you

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ftw · 09/06/2016 16:29

Lost first half of post. Said something like I'm not as over the moon as I'd like to be for a bunch of reasons. (Then I only managed to list two FML)

Bue · 09/06/2016 16:28

It's rare I agree wholeheartedly with Polly Toynbee but I do today: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/09/demonise-hillary-clinton-careful-us-president

The widespread downplaying of this historic achievement depresses me. In one article I read it was downplayed because X number of countries around the world have already had a female leader, so nothing to see here folks! By that reasoning over 60 countries have already had black leaders so Obama's achivement wasn't very impressive either Hmm

The other thing that annoys me is the incessant need for people to hold her to a higher standard than any male politician. "Oh I want a woman leader but I didn't want it to be this woman!" Well you know what, I don't want this man in charge of the Labour party, but I'll still support and vote for them. To say we shouldn't have a woman as President until it is the absolute perfect woman is ludicrous sexism. No politician is perfect and no man has ever been held to that standard.

ftw · 09/06/2016 16:27
  1. not nepotism as such but by staying married after such a humiliating-to-anyone-else affair
  2. the fact that American politics is just so unutterably insane And some other things I'm struggling to articulate.

I'm pleased it's happened, but more in a 'about bloody time' way than a 'crashing through the glass ceiling way'.

Felascloak · 09/06/2016 16:14

Maybe I wasn't clear in my opinion and subsequent posts. I'm not particularly singling out the BBC (except for the inner bitch headline, the article which I did link to. I can't help it if the beeb changed their links after I posted). I just found it extremely depressing that a woman had passed a major milestone and yet all the comments were really negative.
I said it was a rant. There's no need to be so goady in your responses lass

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/06/2016 12:59

The link you posted had several BBC reports not one of which was even the one you are complaining of.

I'm sure Tina Brown is on twitter or Facebook- have you tried telling her you get fed up with hearing women are bitches - resting bitch face, inner bitch etc etc?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/06/2016 12:56

One tiny report out of the probably 1000s which the BBC has run yet the BBC is at fault, not the woman who actually made the comment.

If a man had said what Tina Brown had said I expect you would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

Felascloak · 09/06/2016 09:06

*nigger
Even my autocorrect hates it

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Felascloak · 09/06/2016 09:05

lass the bbc didn't have to pick that particular statement as the headline for the story. They did it because it was an attention grabbing statement. I think it's sexist and there were plenty of other things they could have used as a headline. It grated on me because I get fed up with hearing women are bitches - resting bitch face, inner bitch etc etc.
It interests me what someone said up thread about black people using the word bigger. If that happened I doubt the BBC would use a snippet as a headline. Because it could be perceived as racist. No such qualms about sexist language though.

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/06/2016 08:46

My point was, likening someone to a head of state who has done reprehensible things is still taking him seriously. "inner bitch" ... not so much

Only inasmuch as saying his politics are equally as reprehensible.

You do realise "inner bitch " was a comment made by Clinton's friend and supporter Tina Brown?

deydododatdodontdeydo · 09/06/2016 08:43

Of course she's not perfect but neither is any man who has ever run for president.

They've always been various shades of evil/corrupt, in my opinion, and Clinton is no different apart from being female.

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