Can someone explain the feminism - transgender clash...

feminist4
I am interested in understand8ng why you think we have separation between men and women in for example a rape crisis centre? Do you think all men are rapists?

Adulthumancat, you are lumping my daughter in with a serial rapist. This is not acceptable. I don't lump all women in with Rosemary West. Trans Activists are fed up with this exclusion by feminists. I'm not a trans activist, I am a mother with three daughters (one is transgender). She is as much one of the sisterhood as any other woman and shouldn't be excluded.

Sorry Puffinity, Can you tell me what is transphobic about saying that Transgender women and men are not defined by their genitalia?

If you understand that women can do anything a man can do and vice versa, the ONLY difference between the sexes is due to reproductive class, or more crudely, genitaila.

Any definition of "woman" that ignores reproductive class is sexist nonsense.

Genitaila DOES define someone's reproductive class, more commonly known as sex. It DOES NOT define how they have to act, dress or "feel".

A woman is simply an adult human female. Nothing more nothing less.

Feminist4 you really need to take this up with Stonewall, not Mumsnet. They're the ones who are lumping trans people such as your daughter together with Karen White and others of that ilk, and advocating that they should have the same access to women's single sex provisions.
You're standing up for your daughter, I'm standing up for mine (and women like her). She is a vulnerable adult and Stonewall's position (and that of other trans activist bodies) threaten her safety. It's not a matter of judging your daughter, it's a matter of keeping secure procedures and spaces to protect women.

It's hardly trsnsphobic to say that it is not their birth genitalia that defines them and you know that Bollocks! Quite literally!

Women and girls don't have them.

And that is after disentangling another of your double negative type statements!

Oh! Well you have still ignored 99% of my post, so presumably you have missed the many reiterations of that!

TRAs not transgender individuals were the focus of feminist ire.

Now women are refusing to collude in the polite lie that transwomen are women, or vulnerable, or in need of the same support. They have become a threat solely due to TRA actions, and all the now more public reportings of the myriad of things that would never happen.

As more organisations start to act as though Self ID is already a reality more women are threatened in a very real manner. You cannot deny the facts behind Karen White.

Why should women continue to be nice when 'transitioning' doesn't mean anything any more - see Stonewall's definition of transwoman?

As it stands a transitioned man will just be a man who says he feels like being a woman. That is how many organisations are acting right now or are being forced to act - see Canada etc etc

You cannot expect women not to shout STOP!!!! This cannot continue, there has to be a proper risk assessment, a proper consultation. Some REAL thought given to the dangers that common sense tell you WILL exist - mainly because there are enough, recent examples to point at!

It's hardly trsnsphobic to say that it is not their birth genitalia that defines them and you know that. It is trsnsphobic to suggest it does define them like the trsnsphobia on this board

Some people here are saying it's not about the potential threat of transgender women and other posters are saying that it is the threat Of violence by transgender women. Can't you agree?

I'm not taking about self ID. What about a transgender woman who has transitioned. She is female, vulnerable and needs the same support. She is not a threat.

How transphobic to deny the lived reality of trans women by denying they are biologically male.

The self id law allows all males complete access to all women spaces, including all violent males out there and those violent males who are trans women, they maybe the minority of trans women but the law will mean all biological males have avces to women’s safe spaces.

Nope! You're going to have to type that again...

If it isn't a threat posed by transgender women... then why not include a marginalised vulnerable group who have transitioned?

I can't make head nor tail of that!

So if it isn't the threat posed by transgender women (which other posters have said) then why not include a marginalised vulnerable group who have transitioned?

The fragility we are now required to manage is worrying. Honestly women are getting it in the neck from all sides.

Male violence - women's fault.
Male mental health - women's fault.

Feck off.

I think this is likely to cause unnecessary hurt and anger which should be reserved for genuine hate and abuse. Absolutely!

Posted too soon.

I know far more lovely, kind, considerate men than men who present a physical or sexual threat to women. This doesn't mean I think sex segregated provision (determined by sexed bodies) isn't necessary. I also don't think that other women not wanting my lovely dad, brothers or male friends allowed in is because they think they are a threat.

I fear that you, and many others who come here are filtering for hate (probably with positive intentions) and seeing it where it isn't. I think this is likely to cause unnecessary hurt and anger which should be reserved for genuine hate and abuse.

See, you are doing it again!

If you can't make your point without having to traduce a poster then you don't have a valid point to make.

It is offensive to define all transgender women as potentially dangerous because one is

It is offensive to judge anyone because of the behaviours of others. M

Yes. Karen White is a violent criminal. It is offensive to define all transgender women as potentially dangerous because one is. I’m nothing like Rosemary West and would be insulted to be grouped in with her. The board with bogus stats on transgender violence in prisons has many offensive posters in my opinion. But they don’t see it as offensive.

No you weren't! You responded specifically to my post and my having included Karen White.

Don't back peddle. Have the courage of your convictions and discuss this openly, honesty. that is all women have been trying to do here and on many other places.

If you have seen posters openly demonstrating transphobia show us... and we will join you in reporting it to MNHQ and having it removed!

I was referring to the group of radical feminists on Mumsnet rather than you personally. There are tooany who laugh at the misfortunes of transgender women and demonstrate transphobia

So, no apology for completely misrepresenting me?

No attempt to engage with me honestly?

No? Pshaw!

Feminist 4.

She is different to natal women though. It is ludicrous to think or suggest otherwise. In most contexts those differences are irrelevant, in done they are highly significant.

To suggest or believe that wanting to attend to those differences is hateful is crazy, and damaging to everyone.

Three not free

Of course I'm posting in good faith. I think that as a woman with free daughters, one of whom is a transgender daughter, I can see the harm and damage being done by those women who keep saying she is a man.