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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can someone explain the feminism - transgender clash...

230 replies

Puffinity · 03/06/2016 21:42

...in a calm, non-ranty and non-sweary manner? Until very recently, my line of thinking was 'There are some men who feel like women (and vice versa). Fortunately, we are now open-minded enough as a society to accept this, and these people can have a sex change. Their bodies will then resemble their identity more closely and they will be happier for it.' Because of this, I was quite shocked at how anti-trans some feminists are. I am inclined to think there is more to it, and it is not as straightforward a question as it may seem. Can someone explain the issue in a bit more detail to me? I obviously understand the annoyance over banning the use of the word 'clitoris' for being offensive to transwomen (MtF) and could understand why some biological women (not sure what the correct lingo is) have problems allowing transwomen (MtF) who still have a penis into women-only (safe) spaces. But how many transwomen get upset over the use of words like clitoris and uterus? Surely most would just be relieved to have addressed their gender dysphoria and would want to get on with life? And how many transwomen (MtF) decide to keep their penis? Wouldn't it be wrong to exclude transwomen (MtF) from women-only activities? Shouldn't biological women who consider themselves feminists have some sympathy for other groups that are not treated equally in society? I am not trying to create a really heated debate, these are genuine questions I have. Having them answered will help me have a more informed opinion on the matter, which does seem to crop up more and more. Your views would be much appreciated!

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NeedACleverNN · 03/06/2016 22:01

What Hermione said

It's scary that a man can identify as a woman and access places where women should feel safe. If you have a penis, biologically you are a man.

HermioneWeasley · 03/06/2016 21:56

More pics

Can someone explain the feminism - transgender clash...
Can someone explain the feminism - transgender clash...
Can someone explain the feminism - transgender clash...
KateBeckett · 03/06/2016 21:54

I think it is to do with the idea of 'male' and 'female' brains, and gender as a social construct not being overly compatible with 'feeling like' the opposite sex?

HermioneWeasley · 03/06/2016 21:54

Ok, here's my attempt.

Lots of trans people just want to live peacefully and get on with their lives, but a vocal group of transactivists are intent on changing laws (I believe to the detriment of women) and silencing any objection.

Currently the majority of trans people are male to trans (MTT). Most of us still think of "trans women" (TW) as transsexuals - committing to "living as a woman" (whatever that actually means), taking hormones and having surgery. Actually 70-80% of TW don't have genital surgery - most retain functioning penises. As the moment to get a gender recognition certificate (GRC) you have to have lived as the opposite sex for a period of time, and been through medical services - ie: there's a level of commitment before a man can legally be considered a woman. Even then, services are still able to be woman only where relevant (for example, rape crisis centres)

Increasingly trans doesn't even mean attempting to look like or pass as women, it just means an ill defined feeling that you're a woman. I'll attach some photos.

A change in the law has been proposed (and already enacted in 4 countries) which means instead of there being any external or medical validation, you just fill in a form in the Internet and bingo your sex is changed. Also there will be no "get out" for services based n sex. That's all - fill in your form and any man can have access to any previously sex segregated space - prisons, hospital wards, showers, changing rooms, DV shelters - anything.

Th only study of its kind (followed every post op TW in Sweden) showed that TW commit crime, including violent crime, at the same rate as men.

So for all these reasons, some of us are very concerned and are standing up to say that "woman" is not a feeling, and that places segregated on the basis of SEX should remain so, and not based on "gender identity".

Can someone explain the feminism - transgender clash...
whenthewindblows · 03/06/2016 21:46

Watching with interest as I have a similar PoV and have wondered about these issues.