This is getting out of control - Ladyfest

The ironic thing is, this whole shit makes me feel unsafe. I'm a bit paranoid about the whole room of people turning against me because I said something transphobic.

I hear you. Reading through the website, they are oh-so concerned with niceness. Not saying anything that could possibly offend anyone, anywhere, anywhen and providing 'awareness' staff who will take you into a quiet room if you feel 'violated' and try to 'empower' you. Libfeminism just seems to bother about all this surface stuff. You don't empower an individual by being nice to them. You can comfort, invigorate, challenge and help them, but you can't empower them. Empowerment requires power. If asking nicely worked, we'd've won true equality already.

Libfeminism of this flavour just seems to be about policing tones and thoughts to spare feelings. It doesn't address any structural oppression. It's just chucking a flowery tablecloth over the patriarchal bullshit. So no, it doesn't make me feel safe either.

Petal So do you all know who you are,like do you all say I'm a rad fem or im a lib fem

Well, I think feminism is a bit of a journey. You can be any kind you like, but it starts with the radical notion that women are people too. I tend towards the radical side of things, but mainly in theory.

No

I had never even considered myself a feminist before mn but then I realised I am

I agree in equal rights for women

So do you all know who you are,like do you all say I'm a rad fem or im a lib fem....or is it like voting where you don't tell anyone who you vote for,I'm sorry .i know I'm being a pain here.

So when I was called a terf earlier ,that was a compliment?

Depends. It is most often used as insult by transactivists, but I identify as terf because I don't think there's anything bad about being a trans exclusive radfem.

Some feminists also made up new meanings, like "totally excellent real female"

Radfem is short for radical feminist. Libfem is short for liberal feminist. There are more detailed definitions, but for the purpose of this discussion, all you need to know is that radfems are typically trans-exclusionary (i.e. do not consider males women, regardless of how those males identify), while libfems are not. This does not have to be the case, radical just meaning addressing the root of the problem (radix = root in Latin), but is a tendency arising from the way those feminists go about addressing problems.

So when I was called a terf earlier ,that was a compliment?

Trans exclusionary-nary,queer fenmenism,gender queer trans phobia misogynist

Sorry. I keep forgetting that not everyone knows the Ancient Greek words that are used in medicine.

Misogynist is woman-hater. The "Mis" part means hate, the "gyn" part means woman. You very often find this in medical language.

"trans phobia" - a made up word that doesn't make sense. Phobia is irrational fear, but is here meant to mean "hate". "trans" is shortened from "transgender". Transphobic means "hateful of people who identify as transgender", but is an accusation thrown at all women who put women first.

Can't help you with "queer" that doesn't seem to mean anything. Used to mean something like "weird" and I think that's the accurate meaning today. (Also used to mean homosexual once, but is devoid of that meaning by now. Can mean just any person who identifies as special snowflake.)

Trans phobia is basically like homophobic but of trans people instead

I know a couple
Sanpro is sanitary protection such as tampons and towels

Misogyny is male oppression ie keeping women in their place

Can't even find some in my dictionary

Libfem

Radfem as well

So what can we do,to protect women's rights and not have them sidelined by non women?

Maybe they do need someone like you to get a conversation started?

I try to talk to all my female friends who aren't political about this, and point out what the dangers are.

With the pro-trans feminists, I found it is like talking against a wall. A very soft, squishy wall that doesn't want to hurt your feelings, but is more invested in catering to trans.

@AuntDotsie: Great, that makes two of us!
Perhaps we should arrange a meeting when we've found five .. not sure it makes sense to try and find more.

But there was so, so much waffle about 'awareness', boundary violation and safe spaces that it just wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

The ironic thing is, this whole shit makes me feel unsafe. I'm a bit paranoid about the whole room of people turning against me because I said something transphobic.

Safest I've ever felt was in the blogs of radfems. Libfem blogs seem to police speech, twist your words around and create an atmosphere of distrust.
But perhaps that's because radfems address the roots of oppression, which is pretty easy to apply to your own country, while libfems get all angry about some politician saying something, and when I point out he could have a point, I'm banhammered because unbeknownst to me, that guy is a known racist, sexist asshole in the US.

Or perhaps it is because most radfems have seen some very bad shit, and won't attack a woman just because she worded something a bit insensitively.

Trans exclusionary-nary,queer fenmenism,gender queer trans phobia misogynist ,Sanpro

What terms/words are you unsure of petal? We'll try to help although urban dictionary can also be useful for that kind of thing.

Thanks Vestal, that's sad but interesting. Although I'm guessing with its history some Germans feel they must be very careful about being inclusive and not being seen to "other" certain groups who identify as persecuted minorities. At least I've heard a few Germans say that in other contexts. Which is rubbish because Germans are typically very well educated and women friendly in other ways. Maybe they do need someone like you to get a conversation started?

• honorary Bavarian here

I couldn't find anything referencing clitgate on the Lady*fest website either. But there was so, so much waffle about 'awareness', boundary violation and safe spaces that it just wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Need if you watch kids' channels with adverts on, the ads make society's expectations of boys and girls abundantly clear. Little boys play with cars and superheroes, little girls have dollies to dress up and play make-up. Toy adverts reinforce gender roles incredibly powerful and kids love to watch them.

Additionally, we see what we want to. If my youngest was a girl I'd be marvelling about how funny it is that the eldest loves Boy Things and the littlest loves pink and has a doll - but as it happens they are the same sex but just like different things. So in my case study of my own children id say sex has nothing to do with it at all.

KathyBeale

I wish trans men would do that. I don't think men would bend over backwards to pander to them. Strangely enough, they don't.

NeedacleverNN, TV reflects society and therefore your 15 month old baby is exposed to a greater or lesser extent to societal messages and expectations. He doesn't exist in a vacuum. I really don't think a 15 month old is too young to start to pick things like that up.

Are men allowed to talk about their penises or prostates or testicles or is that upsetting to trans-men who might not have them? Hmm, I wonder...

Would anyone be willing to do me a list of all the words and what they mean?

Have done a quick google search in German, about Lady*fest banning the term clitoris. The Feminist Current article was the only thing to be found referring to this - after that, it was only porn. (Perhaps there was more after the porn, but I am not too keen on reading even description of porn.)

Does anyone speak German? How are German women reacting to this on twitter etc?

I am from Germany. I am not on twitter, but so far, have found only one or two radical feminists from Germany on the internet. (Absolutely none at all in real life) Didn't know the one interviewed by Feminist Current even existed.

If it helps, I am shocked by this development.

Most German feminists seem to be converted to genderism. I haven't been able to find a feminist platform in German language that is not - that's why I'm here.

If any of you want to start a hashtag, like #justrenameitsausagefest, or whatever, I'd be happy to translate German reactions to you.