This is getting out of control - Ladyfest

Okay, perhaps I have judged them too hastily.

Here's a link to the program:

ladyfesthd.wordpress.com/donnerstag-23-juni/

Quote: "Wildkräuter – Essbare Wildkräuter und Frauengewächse“

(Translation: Wild herbs - edible wild herbs and women growths/plants)

If they are really going to do something on women's herbs (the word choice is very weird, usually you say "Frauenheilkräuter", which translates to healing herbs for women. Gewächs means something that grows, but is not usually used to refer to plants that can be categorized as herbs. It is a much more general term) then, perhaps ...

If they actually do a thing on herbs that can be used to treat menstruation pains, and call them what they are - healing herbs for women, then they may not be gone as far in erasing female biology as I suspected them to be.

But let's see if this manages to remain in the program, or will be replaced by something more "inclusive". I fear it may be removed now that I drew attention to it.

I can wear a sari but it don't make me Indian.

"With our queer-feminist background it is clear that not all women* have vaginas/clitorises."

Yep, and I suspect what they're concerned about here is not things like MRKH, where genetic females with functioning ovaries don't have a womb and vagina. Perhaps because some of the really good new surgery available rests on creating vaginal tissue since they have the genes for it (being female, pesky genes and all that!).

Nor do they mean women who have undergone FGM (whoops, that term is transphobic too don't you know!), so may really not have a clitoris.

Nope, we all know who this inclusivity is for, and it isn't females. Our flesh and blood problems aren't sexy enough for the new liberal inclusivity.

The notion that women have to be beautiful to be worth of respect is the problem, not the fact that some women are not considered beautiful by society.

That's exactly why I'm so sick of the so-called empowering "all women/bodies are beautiful" talk, Vestal.

Vestal - "but I fear they will soon accuse the group of being transphobic because "transmen have periods, too" or somesuch nonsense.
And perhaps they will cease to cooperate with the group because they feel it's not feminism, but "humanism" or whatever, because "men have periods, too!" and "when the shit hits the fan and they're told that they are transphobic. "
Yes, that would indeed be terrible. But again, this is all pure speculation on your part. All of it. It's very difficult to have a discussion without knowing any of the facts and making up worst case scenarios isn't helping.

By the way, the Heidelberg Ladyfest will also be cooperating with the "Women need tampons period" group in providing sanitary protection to homeless women. So I don't think anyone's actually erasing female anatomy and female biology...

I am quite sure no one here thinks they're doing it out of malicious intent.
But intent is not magic.

As well-meaning libfems, there's no reason why they shouldn't help homeless women - but I fear they will soon accuse the group of being transphobic because "transmen have periods, too" or somesuch nonsense.
And perhaps they will cease to cooperate with the group because they feel it's not feminism, but "humanism" or whatever, because "men have periods, too!"

Regarding the art, I don't think it can be about dysphoria, as dysphoria in itself is nowadays considered transphobic. Trans"women" who want to get surgery because they feel that their penis is NOT female, are attacked by the genderist group.

... though if there's confirmation that they have art about dysphoria related to sex organs (not related to unshaven legs or whatever), then I might actually go there to be present when the shit hits the fan and they're told that they are transphobic.

I doubt it is possible to NOT be transphobic these days. Even if you try your hardest, you'll still only please half of them. Or, half of them half the time, as not even one transactivist seems to be able to have a consistent opinion.

Here's a link to a blog on this:

purplesagefem.wordpress.com/2016/06/05/the-clitoris-is-it-just-for-cissies-or-is-it-for-everyone/#comment-4249

So, apparently, all women DO have clitorises ... well, except those who had their genitals mutilated, but it's not as if anyone cares about real women.

I found this sentence interesting:
Equating femininity / womanhood with vaginas and clitorises is definitely questionable.

I agree equating femininity with vaginas/clitorises is questionable.
But not womanhood. Womanhood and femininity aren't the same thing

I agree that the "all bodies are beautiful" shite needs to go, but I do think there is a lot of speculation on this thread. I don't know whether this:
"With our queer-feminist background it is clear that not all women* have vaginas/clitorises. (Btw this will be subject and part of our art show/exhibiton.)" means that there will be art "celebrating the female penis" or whatever on show, or simply art about gender dysphoria, because I haven't seen any of the artworks and I think it's unfair to assume it will all be dick-centred. By the way, the Heidelberg Ladyfest will also be cooperating with the "Women need tampons period" group in providing sanitary protection to homeless women. So I don't think anyone's actually erasing female anatomy and female biology...

I wonder if that is true, or if they just backpedalled after the criticism and decided to have clitorises and add penises to seem less exclusive of female anatomy.
Obviously, they're well within their rights to change their opinions on how to do a thing, and it wasn't an ultimate decision that got leaked, just work in progress, but I feel the problematic sentiment is still very much there.

Penis is not, and will never be, female anatomy.

What does that have to do with anything? Vulvas do not have to be beautiful. They should just be accepted as the female sex organ they are

Yeah, this obsession with "beauty" is problematic. I find all sex organs rather gross, to be honest. Doesn't change the fact that vulvas are normal (female!) anatomy, and should be accepted as such.

It reminds me of those "all women are beautiful" campaigns. They make sense only if we accept "beautiful" to be synonymous with "human being with inherent worth" and that reveals very nicely how women are treated under patriarchy.

The notion that women have to be beautiful to be worth of respect is the problem, not the fact that some women are not considered beautiful by society.
There's plenty of men most people would agree are ugly as hell. Thing is, those men aren't treated as second-class citizens because of it.

Cheers for the clarification Homer.

No to dick celebration at the lady festival. Too much of that in the world. Just google "Japan penis festival".

"All bodies are beautiful" they write in that link.
What does that have to do with anything? Vulvas do not have to be beautiful. They should just be accepted as the female sex organ they are. And there is nothing shameful or transphobic about them.

Not banned but we are told that "not all women have vaginas and clitorises" and there will be art to represent this too. Does this mean some lovely lady penis and testicle sculptures? At a festival aimed at putting women to the front dicks are still a part of it.

So it seems clitorisis aren't 'banned' at all.

ladyfesthd.wordpress.com/

I know a few women who were excited at the idea of a women only area at Glasto who will now not be using it.

No matter what we're told, Glasto is a less and less safe place for women to be from when I worked there the first time to the last, there has been a definite change in focus and feel to it, so a female safe space would have been a great idea.

Shame it's not a female only space now, maybe some women could get together and do something for women, rather than for all-comers?

www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jun/06/glastonbury-2016-sisterhood-women-only-venue

The 2016 Glastonbury festival will feature its first ever women-only venue. Called The Sisterhood, it has been described by the organisers as a “revolutionary clubhouse” open to “all people who identify as women.”

The Sisterhood will be an “intersectional, queer, trans and disability-inclusive space” and will be staffed entirely by people who identify as female, from performers to security staff.

Presumably a bunch of blokes will just be able to rock up, say they identify as women and gain entry? My sister will be at Glasto, I'm going to ask her to investigate.

Thanks AuntDotsie. Picking a pronoun from that list would probably be the least debatable.

On the other hand, female nonbinaries seem to be pretty common, not sure that would be as shocking as a group of women turning up claiming to be male. (For extra confusion, we could claim to be cismales, because our bodies are male, too. Because we say so.)

Not yet decided whether I shouldn't pick one of this list of pronouns

Have you seen the official Lady*Fest list of German non-binary pronouns? You can find it linked at the bottom of this page. Cos German grammar isn't complex enough!

empressofthevulvacupcakes - I'd always wondered about her username!

heh. I can just imagine all 5'1 of myself rocking up. Chubby with plenty of T&A, high voice and maternal air. Probably wearing a massive loose black skirt because of unpredictable flooding. I'm a man! Oh no you're not. Oh right you are, don't want to cause a fuss

I think a big group of very obviously female women who do nothing to appear masculine but insist that they are, might impress on some the fact that men like Danielle Muscato might exist.

I also admit I am an evil person and might quite enjoy people stumbling over their own words as they try to remember the correct pronouns.

Not yet decided whether I shouldn't pick one of this list of pronouns:

askanonbinary.tumblr.com/nature

But their translatability is not that good.

What would we do at Ladyfest with male identity vestal? I'm thinking doing it legally if they were to change the system would cause more havoc but Ladyfest might allow us to test the waters?!

Great post AuntDotsie

Does that mean that "cis" men can go to Ladyfest too then?*

Yes, they can.

I visited one Lady*fest, and have found the "cis" men to be rather nice and respectful, keeping in the background and let the women talk, while some of the trans"women" I spoke to tried to convinced me that there was such a thing as a female penis, and that "female anatomy" should not be used do describe, well, female anatomy.

I wonder how they say they were misquoted - so will they do the clitoris talk now, or do they just claim to have been misquoted about the "no one is allowed to say clitoris" thing?

Sometimes I think the solution is for us all to declare ourselves men. Just to see what happens!

Are you up for going to Lady*fest and claim male identity? If we can get a large enough group, I think it might be rather funny.
Of course, we'd not change anything about our appearance. Because hey, men can have long hair. And wear skirts and dresses. And so on and so forth.

I am totally up for identifying as a man. Does that mean I'll get paid more and my boss will stop nicking my ideas and pretending he thought of them?

Sorry, that was in response to singing earlier.