On appearances

I am 45 and we'll aware. I do spend some money on appearance but stand by the fact that eighty pounds is a lot on my income. Id have to be rich to justify it. My mother is seventy something and could not afford it either but looks fine without it as did my grandparents etc etc so yes it's up to you as said in my first post but still think it's a waste. That's just how I feel about it personally

Correction: "moment of solidarity"

I have never done make up every day. It takes a big occasion to make me use even a small amount - like a wedding. I had too much make up on at my own wedding, and I regret it. I dont look like me in the photos!

A couple of years ago I was in the cinema and got irritated by an advert for some sort of skincare, so I commented along the lines of "or just have a face". The woman in front of me turned round in her seat and grinned, it was a great moment of solid against all the lotions and potions :)

I am 33 now, and hope that as my hair gets greyer and my skin gets wrinklier I will still not give a damn.

Gandalf, I think it was the extremity of eyelash serum or something that made me post...i

It really has damn all to do with you what a grown up woman spends her money on. Possibly you are unaware of the fact that as you get older some women lose eyebrows and eye lashes. I did. I don't suppose any one apart from me noticed but I did.

Eyelash serum is a side effect of a legitimate medical treatment. I can't now remember which but it was a verifiable and unexpected side effect. It really does work.

I love the way one list of things to spend money on is fine but other things are "grotesque consumerism"

I gave in after first child and went from next to no make up to:
Roots done myself every 3 weeks
Highlights and cut every 3 months
Make up every morning
Eyebrow thread once a month
Much more interest in clothes too!!
I really enjoy the ritual now but I admit it can get tedious. Particularly the hair.
It came with age. I just don't look so good anymore.

Yes. It is a lot of money. I can think of a multitude of things I'd rather spend the money on - a night out, an item of clothing, something for the children, put it towards a weekend or day out or something!! It's grotesque, the consumerism but I guess it is their choice, isn't it?

I was going to post a similar thread a while ago but could not articulate my point so thank you!

I agree with OP's points. We are too obsessed and I think that sometimes it is sad that all there is to a person - a woman, in particular - is her appearance. I do get grooming to a point. I wear make-up but not always every day and only a bit of mascara, usually. I also dye my hair. I tend not to dress up and take time over what to wear unless I am going somewhere. Sometimes I'll wear jewellery if I feel like it. It is not the end of the world if I don't groom and I certainly would not stay in over it or feel bad about myself but I am sucked in to the extent that I feel a bit better if I make myself look 'nice.'

However, where I do think it is wrong is if you feel you can't answer the door if you don't have make up on or, in the case of a friend of mine, she couldn't wear make up due to an eye infection and so wore a hat on the school run.

This would never happen to a man...

I also think, to a point, men expect to us to be like that and other women expect all women to chat about make up and fashion. I take part in it to an extent but it's not something I could have a long conversation about.

for managers, sales, consulting, image is a part of your role, and for women the expectation is a certain amount of makeup or you look like you don't belong - the equivalent of wearing a cheap suit to a directors meeting.

I agree that for these types of job the image that you project is important (we could discuss at length why physical appearance is so important I'm sure) and that there is an expectation that for women this means wearing make-up to look like you belong. I suppose what I take issue with is why is should be that women need to paint their faces to be deemed suitably professional when men don't. If I and a male colleague are both wearing suits, are clean and have neat hair why should I also be expected to have coloured lips, flawless skin and mascara on my eyelashes to accentuate them? I also think it's interesting that for a man a few grey hairs can give him an advantage in that he may be described as distinguished looking but for a woman it's often seen as a sign that she's old (and therefore not on the ball) and too lazy to dye it.

I think PP have made some interesting points about social media too. Nowadays (especially for the younger women) photos/videos of every social event are likely to be published on line and commented on by other people so I'm sure there is even more pressure to look just right. I can see that this is also increasingly applicable to men which I suppose to some extent could be seen as good for equality but it saddens me that outward appearance is becoming even more of an issue than when I was younger.

I think this recent change and obsession with the way we look is because of social media, Instagram and Facebook in particular. It passed me by, I'm late 30s but I'm worried for my DDs, how will this pressure affect them?

Totally agree. My students at school spend longer getting ready for svhool than I did for my wedding! I'm refusing to dye my hair, too. So depressing.

writeforfun - I was referring to finding that the more I question things, the more my lifestyle deviates from what is often the mainstream, which in turn can make it difficult to settle into a new job or similar.

I've had a few places where it's expected by my female colleagues that we will bond by talking about makeup and clothes shopping and some quasi-competitive putting ourselves down about failure to diet. Mostly you can switch the conversation to something else, but if you also don't watch mainstream TV shows, Hollywood films, nor want to whinge about your boyfriend (Talk to him already, not us!), it can get very hard the more you find yourself different from the norm. I know men who hate football who can have a similar problem.

Recently the level of grooming expected of men seems to have risen - hair gel, moisturiser, trimmed facial hair. I noticed at work recently that you could really tell which men were higher grades than others by the smooth moisturised faces and well-fitting suits and shirts as well as posture and amount of eye contact. So rather than appearances becoming less of an issue, I think judging on them is spreading even more to men as well. Which might then lead to faster implementation of looks-blind hiring and other improvements, if we're lucky.

It was some byproduct of the Saki industry.. it was literally water, which smelled slightly of Saki, which you were supposed to splash on your face twice a day for dramatic effects. Then I realised what I was doing.

Actually, there was a second peak moment when I gave up shampoo (only possibly in soft water areas I have found out) - I saw an advert for a mouthwash that dealt with 'drymouth'. Not a medical product (I know some drugs cause a dry mouth), just, you know, a dry mouth. Of the type you would generally cure by drinking water. That's when I swore off the shelf of hair care, and my hair is absolutely fine for it. Turns out bicarb followed by lemon juice work just as well (again, no good in hard water).

Empress is correct - there's a certain image you need to project, and for women, that generally includes looking like you've made some kind of effort with your face if you're in that kind of role. I would say that HCPs, Engineers onsite, other practical jobs it's actually detrimental to your image to wear obvious makeup, but for managers, sales, consulting, image is a part of your role, and for women the expectation is a certain amount of makeup or you look like you don't belong - the equivalent of wearing a cheap suit to a directors meeting.

I think everyone's far too busy worrying about themselves and their own appearances to be bothered about mine.

I also think there are some women in the public eye who don't do the make-up thing - Mary Beard and Ruth Goodman spring to mind. I bloody love them!

Even the mumsnet work fest was sponsored by nice n easy, implying that you need to cover your grey to get back into work! I found that sponsorship really distasteful.

Basically the hair, make up and age thing is all about giving the illusion that you're still young enough to carry a baby. Over 35 and you're approaching being too old to have a baby so you mustn't age beyond that because if you can't carry a baby as a woman, what use are you to society? Its just so very very wrong and misogynistic but how can we fight against the beauty industry?

If you go out, without make up, and everyone else is wearing it, don't you feel... I feel like everyone is looking at me thinking I've not made the right effort, like I'm an awful lazy scruff or something.

It is so disappointing when even a women's networking person is advising make up
I attended a women's leadership series which included a bit about the importance of appearances at work. Clothes, shoes, make up, voice, body language all add to the whole image you project about yourself. I don't think make up wearing was explicitly advocated but I generally assumed that his meant if you want to be taken seriously you need to project a certain image.

Oh, and contouring. Fucking contouring! Trompe l'oeil for your face! That can sod right off.