refusing to say 'Lady'

I say gentleman e.g. "Let this gentleman pass."

let it go!

...unless, of course, the speaker is using the divisive, insulting, virtue-signalling fiction that is cis-woman.

You have made some good points, FeminaSum. I agree about "ladies and men" and "women and gentlemen" sounding really odd. I have sometimes seen toilet signs that read "ladies" and "men" instead of "ladies" and "gentlemen/gents" and that never looks right to me.

Interesting point, Blackcountryman12. I hadn't really thought about it before. I tend to use 'gentleman' only for men who are older than I am, I think, and 'man' for men of any age. That's in no way deliberately chosen, I'm just reflecting on my own language habits. It might be an unconscious politeness/respect thing. As 'lady' does seem that bit less formal than 'gentleman' maybe that's why I do use it in a wider range of contexts.

I'd never say either 'ladies and men' or 'women and gentlemen' because both sound really odd to me. However, I've heard other people use the former but never the latter, so I do see the asymmetry.

Strikeout fail 😭

Don’t worry rufus, no offence taken!

Although I might feel tempted to tell people I’m not a lady, I never actually have! Usually just quietly bite tongue —which is actually quite ladylike of me, ironically—

And I am less irritated by it in the situation you describe, ie a person in a customer facing role. It annoys me more in social situations.

Hi Asri, thanks as well for letting me know it is better to start a new thread when I join.

FeminaSum, I noticed your reference with how you use lady "interchangeably" with woman, but would you use gentleman interchangeably with man?

I know language changes, but as lady and gentleman are supposed to go together I personally find it irritating when I hear "lady" in some contexts when men aren't called "gentleman". To me it is a polite word but it can sadly be misused and devalued while gentleman remains a completely polite word. It doesn't seem wholly fair when they are both meant to be polite words.

Some interesting comments. As I said, if "lady" is used in a polite way it sounds OK to me, but I agree with 2rebecca's post about it sounding twee in certain contexts, I also cringe when I see terms like "lady penis" and "lady boner". I also hate it when "lady" is used rudely, as in "hey lady, watch out".

"Gentleman" is used a lot less and also seems to have kept its connotations of good manners, class and respect more than "lady".

I would normally use "woman" and would only say "lady" in polite contexts. I have also noticed that while groups of women are addressed as "ladies", groups of men aren't often addressed as "gentlemen". This makes me cringe a bit sometimes, what's wrong with "gentlemen"? Is it because people think "gentlemen" is too formal, when "ladies" feels the only appropriate way to address women?

I work in a dress shop,

I usually say can i help you, or are you ok there or are you happy browsing because i feel like a bit of a twat saying ladies

But sometimes i have to say are you happy ladies because the business likes it

Im not sure how id react to water telling me she wasnt a lady

Probably with 'woman after my own heart' or maybe just depending on my mood

That is supposed to be light hearted water sincere apologies if it doesn't come across as such

I don’t agree that ‘lady’ is just a synonym for woman. ‘Lady’ carries connotations around behaviour and conduct, hence ‘ladylike’.

I hate it and try not to use it, though agree that ‘woman’ might sound jarring to some, depending on context.

When people use the word ‘lady’ to describe me, I am always tempted to tell them I’m not a lady. I reject a lot of the stereotypes associated with the word so don’t feel it is a word that can accurately describe me!

They're chaps and lasses, surely ?

Aside - Emily Howard was so spot on that either he's AGP himself or he's known people who were.

I love the word lady especially on the feminist board. It is a love hate word but I am having it . woman has been taken over can’t wait to see when. It comes trans ladies are ladies? Why as a slogan doesn’t it work? I wonder why?
lady brains
Lady hands
Lady penis
Alll becomes a bit little Britain

Posted too soon
An example of what Olenna is referring to is the Jean Rhys collection of short stories and the titular story Sleep it Off, Lady which is definitely not used in a respectful way.

If the example referring to a car is because the "lady" is about to be run over it's perfectly fine !

An example of what Olenna is thinking

'Gentleman' is another word for man!
I think you're making too much of it, 'lady' without a capital L is only an alternative word for woman.

'Woman' would sound worse in those examples, I think, OlennasWimple*

"lady" can be a bit rude, or at least offhand though

"Hey lady, watch out for the car!" "Lady, it's your turn!" type thing

Can be- depends on context, tone of voice, intention. In these examples the person is being addressed direct whereas the thread is about the politest way to refer to a person, withinin their hearing, whilst not addressing them directly.

"lady" can be a bit rude, or at least offhand though.

"Hey lady, watch out for the car!" "Lady, it's your turn!" type thing

Where I live, I get called "lady" quite a bit because it's a direct translation of the word used in the local language. At first I bridled a bit, as it felt rude, until I clocked why it was being used in this way.

I never supposed for a moment you did, Lass

I don't have a problem using lady. It's just a polite term for woman. Like Gentleman is a polite term for man to me.

I don't see that at all. With a child I would say lady or gentleman. I don't see either as baby tallk or softening of language.

Actually I didn't and wouldn't use doggy, kitty, moo-cow, or birdie to a child.

I'd tend to agree with AdultHumanFemale, best to refer to the person by their function wherever possible.

There's something about the fact that much of this discussion about the use of 'lady' rather than 'woman' is specifically in relation to talking with small children which makes me wonder, if in that context, it's partly down to the 'softening' of language we use with them - doggy, kitty, moo-cow, birdie.... nice, friendly words. Although, obviously, 'lady' is a standard word rather than a baby talk diminutive, it's the same style of word.

Well, quite. I was brought up with it being the respectful option when addressing someone who was present, but indirectly. I might, at a pinch say 'the customer', but it doesn't feel very friendly.