Another article on the trans issue, from a different perspective

The closest I've seen - acknowledging that just because I don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist! - is the MGTOW. But they still want women for sex, they don't advocate having sex with one another.

They still need women's reproductive labor, of course, and there's a strong taboo on homosexuality. The two may be connected.
And then there's the fact that many men don't feel same sex attraction. (Though I do believe it is cultural, see ancient Greece)

But I do think a lot of men are actually homoromantic. Their male best friends are most important to them than women they have sex with, even women they are married to.
Probably a subconscious reaction to them craving equal relationships, but at the same time not wanting women to be their equals.

Much less conscious than political lesbianism, and of course, motivated by much more selfish reasons. Like, wanting to have their cake (oppressing women) and eat it (having equal emotional relationships).

I agree that the men who consciously decide not to love women are probably a small subset - but there are many who just do it, without even thinking.

OK.

Delacey Skinner seems to be relatively well known and connected in Democrat political circles.

This article has something to say about her.

With friends like these … | Pittsburgh Lesbian Correspondents
www.pghlesbian.com/2016/04/with-friends-like-these/

Googled Delacey myself, I can't help suspecting they are in fact a transwoman and this is a piece of erotic fiction, it certainly isn't biographical.

I read it as a piece of fiction, rather than the author's real story?

I've not heard of a political homosexuality in men that's comparable to political lesbianism

I didn't take Grimarse s post to mean that it did exist but that the scenario which Vestal was proposing was about as likely to be a reality for only as tiny a proportion of women and men as Bindel's separatist lesbian utopia is.

I do think that article is bollocks.

Why would you turn up at your ex - boyfriend's house expecting free accommodation when, having previously blagged free accommodation from his parents, you discovered all the writer discovered about his new girlfriend?

To be honest it's an odd mixture of prurience and self-administered salt to wounds.

You didn't, Almond. I was responding to Palmer's comment.

Sorry, Grimarse, I did not mean to detract from your point.

I don't get why the comparison between political lesbianism and political male homosexuality is that 'odd'. Men and women are the same under the covers. Whether or not the article is truth or bollocks, if one exists then surely the other one can too.

There are photos on the Internet (two minute Google) of Delacey Skinner in sparkly glamorous dress, massive diamond earrings and a face full of makeup.

Plaid shirts, Inner androgyny and never wears dresses?

What a complete load of bollocks that article is.

Is everyone going to claim to have some kind if inner this or gender that now, even people in their forties with the Clintons as their former clients? At least teenagers who go on about this stuff have the excuse of youth.

The way i see it, the writer is trying to point out that we have fought towards equality, to live how we want to live. Trousers are fine, not wearing make up, not dressing to please men or to fit earlier generations perception if "looking nice".

So the writer, like many, has felt like a strong women, wearing what she wants, not conforming to the "girly girl" stereotype.

Then along comes this tw. Who she immediately recognises as not a born woman. Who is being held up as a glamorous, former model. Who her ex boyfriend is now dating.

So the message she gets is that being a born woman is not enough. To be thought of highly as a women you need to go back to all those stereotypes we thought we'd moved away from. That make up, hair, and high heels means more than the person underneath. It's basically saying that this tw is being treated as a "proper woman", purely on looks, whereas she, the biological woman, is being shown images of the tw as if she were somehow better at being female.

Femaleness being reduced so much to superficial qualities, that the fact they aren't a biological female doesn't even matter.

Well quite Grimble.

And no, this has nothing to do with political lesbianism, what an odd connection to make!

It was interesting that the ex boyfriend's reaction to her dressing up and passing as man was "weird" but dating a transwoman was not weird at all. Oh no.

I see as much logic in this argument as there was in Julie Bindel's political separatist lesbian scenario. Or certainly as much appeal / likelihood of it happening as there was for hers.

Hmm. At first, I thought 'ridiculous'. But then again, maybe not.

Having previously read journalists like Julie Bindel advocating political lesbianism, I guess there is no reason why politically motivated men might not engage in same-sex relationships to remove women from the equation in a similar manner. However, I'd guess that the proportion of women who would countenance this would be way, way less than 30 per cent of the population. I think your figure might similarly be too high. But I can see the logic in your argument.

The latter, no idea, but there must be lots of closeted homosexual men ... think of homosexual behaviour in ancient Greece - clearly a lot of men have a potential for bisexuality. A sufficiently large percentage that it's quite a major issue for public health policy makers trying to target sexual health outreach work - they have a phrase "men who have sex with men" to try to target all men who engage in risky same-sex sexual behaviour, so as not to label men as "homosexual"/ "gay" and thus risk them not coming forward for the help they need.

As for femininity as the cheese to make the bread palatable - spot on. I think your rough guess of about 30% of men who don't actually like women much, unless the women are prepared to put on a submissive, tinkly laughed act to massage their egos, is about right.

I'm with Lass on this one though - this article seems to say rather a lot about the writer's own insecurities. I think "a MTT is going to steal my boyfriend" ranks exactly nowhere on my list of worries.

Wow. I see. So what proportion of men do you think feel that way, Vestal?

Seeing women as flawed, or actually feeling homosexual attraction but preferring to be in a heterosexual relationship?

The former ... enough to uphold patriarchy against the struggle of feminists. Thirty percent if I am generous.

The latter, no idea, but there must be lots of closeted homosexual men ... think of homosexual behaviour in ancient Greece - clearly a lot of men have a potential for bisexuality. Combine that with misogyny and they'd prefer male partners that come without the stigma of homosexuality - transwomen.

Wow. I see. So what proportion of men do you think feel that way, Vestal? Do you think many men would choose a trans partner? The idea of it is something that has never occurred to me. And nobody of my acquaintance has ever expressed the idea. But then, perhaps they wouldn't. Do you think it is a desire, albeit a taboo one, that many men hold?

And that even though she can tell, just from looking at a picture, that the new girlfriend is trans, so therefore clearly doesn't pass, she still thinks the new girlfriend is a "better" woman than she is.

And she's right.

Under patriarchy, men see women as inherently flawed. Gender, i.e. femininity is the cheese men put on the woman-bread before they eat it (cannot remember where I read that but it's a great metaphor).
To expand on the metaphor, like a spoiled child, they'd rather have the cheese without the bread.

So, male+femininity = better woman.

Unless he wants children, but in that case, the transperson's sister can be bullied into risking her health to give him babies. Or, if there is no sister, a woman from a third world country can be exploited for that.

We have reached the stage where men can outsource the babymaking to people they don't have to live with. And I think many misogynist guys like that option very, very much.

I don't think it's a loss - if he prefers a femininity performing male to her, then he never was attracted to her as a (female) person, just to femininity. It's a rather common phenomenon, just think of all the men who hate women but are still in a relationship with one. (Or perhaps they just love the idea of being heterosexual? Then, too, a transsexual will make them happier.)

Okay, so what is the issue here? That a trans woman is 'performing womanhood' better than the author can? The author may have her hang-ups about the failed relationship, but how does this pertain to women in the wider sense? I am not being obtuse, I'd like to understand this better.

No grim. Not.