Man cleared of rape after having sex with a woman who thought he was someone else

fela And how do you respond to rapists who identify their reasons for a specific rape as lust coupled with opportunity? Even if you think that their lust is neither here nor there, isn't it rather difficult to dismiss that opportunity plays a part when rapists are reporting that it does?

I may be off base here, and forgive me if I am, but has something like this actually happened to you gone? I can quite empathize that holding onto "responsibility" feels like holding onto agency, so even though something terrible can happen by owning it we can seek to control its effects on us.

that it is impossible, unfair and sexist for women to take any effective action in response.

I don't think we can stop rape happening, nor can we ensure that it won't happen to us. I also don't think rape necessarily happens in situations where rape is most likely, or that it never happens where it's unlikely. So there is a limit to what you can or can't do to avoid it. At the same time, it's clear that some characteristics/behaviours/similarities crop up more frequently in victims of rape than in the general population. So although you might theorise that a rapist will find a victim no matter what, it also makes sense to put yourself as low down as you are reasonably able to on the continuum of risk that the rapist's next victim will be you. How much you are willing to do to avoid being raped is a personal choice. For instance, it seems that you're more likely to be raped if you're a sex worker. For some people, that would be enough not to be a sex worker. For others, clearly not. Some rapists report they are less likely to attack a woman carrying an umbrella. That might make carrying an umbrella worthwhile for some.

Where this has all become surreal for me is that, in the fight to free victims from any accountability, blame or shame (great fight), feminists have tried to deny there are any risk factors of any significance in connection with being raped. Any risk factors are loudly dismissed as 'rape myths' despite research clearly identifying groups who are more vulnerable to being raped. Or, if these 'exploitable' characteristics are acknowledged, they are dismissed on the grounds that impossible, unfair and sexist for women to take any effective action in response.

Good question, Dervel.

When did rapists stop being the "baddies" here?

A book by G Cooper and others Predators, Who they are and how to stop them quotes a rapist saying that he would not rape someone who looked like they couldn't easily be 'handled'. That's correlation not causation. Interestingly, from what I've glanced at in ten minutes, it seems that the following are more important than what you wear:

• if you're drunk
• if you seem distracted
• if you're poor at reading cues
• if your gait is uncoordinated

Not forgetting the 2009 study citing lust and opportunity.

The ponytail thing has been around a while, as a rapist could grab it.

So do you suggest we all cut our hair? Or never do outdoor sport with our hair tied back? Same advice to men with long hair, as a mugger could do the same, or someone in a bar brawl?

And if all women had short hair, would stranger rape stop? Or would rapists grab an arm or neck instead, do you think?

If women's clothes were more difficult to remove (not sure what this means, tight fitting jeans?) would rapists stop? Or allow another 30s for their attack, do you think?

Since Miss was sufficiently patronising as to refer Buffy (of all people) to the existence of google scholar, may I draw your attention to the existence of Snopes, gone?

"This bit of codswallop began its Internet life in January 2000 as an enthusiastic e-mail penned by an employee at the St. Louis office of the public relations firm Weber Shandwick."

Interesting. I've just read that you're more likely to be raped if you have a pony tail and wear clothing that's easy to remove. No reference though.

Rape
Is
Not
Sex.

It
Is
A
Crime
Of
Violence.

Hope
That
Helps.

Why are women dressed the way they are in lads mags? Does it have anything to do with how men tend to react to this?

Why do women often wear one kind of clothing and not another for a sexual encounter? Does it have anything to do with the way their partner is likely to react or how it will cause her to be perceived?

The surrealism ship definitely sailed without me as a pilot, Lass!

Sorry Ahell my post looked as if I were accusing you of the introduction of surrealism. I wasn't.

Am I the only person who is now finding this thread weirdly amusing ? It has become surreal.

www.teenvogue.com/gallery/what-i-was-wearing-when-i-was-raped#9

No bikinis here. Strange.

"does seem as if it would be more likely to catch a predator's eye."

Well reasoned, well argued, well supported, well done.

No, Buffy, I am still waiting to see research from you that suggests there are no situations in which women are at higher risk of being raped.

*Women are more likely to be raped while drunk, but so are men.

And your point is? Women are more likely to be raped full stop.

Drinking is a risk factor for most violent crime. It's only women who are ever pulled up on this risky behaviour.

If you want to change men's behaviour, be my guest. But don't try to hush up risk factors for women on principle.

'The high proportion of rapes found to occur when women were intoxicated indicates the need for alcohol prevention programs on campuses that address sexual assault, both to educate men about what constitutes rape and to advise women of risky situations". Note there is as much focus there on stopping men raping as women avoiding risk.'

I'm delighted to see it! I'm in full agreement that men should stop raping women and stop behaviours that make them more likely to rape women.

It's fine telling men not to rape. Whether they listen is a different thing. Why not go to the middle east and tell men not to rape and see how far that gets you?

buffy if you're at all familiar with google scholar you can do your own googling in seconds. I feel under no obligation to do it for you.

felascloak This is not an argument about who should drink and who should not drink. I am, I think, speaking largely to women and the topic of discussion was whether there was anything women could do to lower their risk of being raped. Consequently I drew upon research that spoke to that. It didn't occur to me (and unless you are in the playground I think it's a facetious point to make) that this was a discussion about who should stop drinking the most. If you would like to have that conversation, you can have it with someone else because it's obvious to me that although the wider culture does of course need to change and there should be movement towards that however possible, notions of 'fairness' will not affect these statistics or have any traction at all in the mind of a predator.

Do you think a rapist cares what you lot think? Do you think the majority of men are queueing up to hear your views?

hellofa Descending to mocking insults because someone put some hard facts in front of you? Impressive.

A woman walking through a 'bad' part of town in a bikini is welcome to do so as far as I'm concerned. However, a study in 2009 found that a group of rapists disclosed sexual lust and opportunity as their 'reasons' for carrying out a particular rape. Perhaps they would be lustful no matter what. But dressing in the way that a model would in a lads mag (in which, let's be honest, women are dressed to appeal sexually to men) does seem as if it would be more likely to catch a predator's eye. As for opportunity - there could be opportunity anywhere, but somehow crimes do seem to end up happening in 'bad' parts of town and we'd be silly to pretend they don't.

As for most instances of rape happening with people who are known to the victim - I didn't say this wasn't the case, only that stranger rape is far from being a myth.