Man cleared of rape after having sex with a woman who thought he was someone else

And really, why should men change their behaviour, when they have women who are so willing to tell women how stupid they're being for suggesting it?

But why not? If I'm not sure if I've drunk more than the legal limit, I take a cab. You like her, you aren't sure if she's too pissed to consent - take her number, get in touch another time.

But - those are men who'd rather rape a woman than not have sex when they aren't sure how drunk she is. Not exactly the nicest of guys, therefore.

Do you think any woman would call them back after she is sober again?

While for a nice and decent man, just getting the number would not be a problem, as the woman would call him back the next morning, those are apparently men whom no sober woman would ever want.
And instead of just sucking it up and looking for another hobby, they feel entitled to "sex" and raping drunk women.

The only thing they are "terrified" about is the danger that one of the women they raped could go to the police.

"I know men who are terrified that they will get this wrong-but who are never going to stop having one night stands."

But why not? If I'm not sure if I've drunk more than the legal limit, I take a cab. You like her, you aren't sure if she's too pissed to consent - take her number, get in touch another time.

So, the 2009 study...

by whom?

As I have stated clearly, at least twice, I am genuinely interested in the findings of the study and given that it is as old as that, I am quite amazed that I haven't come across it.

And interestingly, a lot of this research boils down to the very simple bits of advice that my own mother would have given me. The difference is that I feel following this advice is responsible behaviour, a price worth paying to stay safer. You feel that it is better for women to be able to live exactly as they wish in the vain hope that someone out there is going to improve. I'm all for changing their behaviour, but I can only control my own behaviour, and I would feel very sorry if I saw my DD making the choices that have been advocated here. We don't live in a perfect world and in light of that, pretending we do live in a perfect world is rather dangerous. So going by a 2009 ( as I recall) study you are safer , but never completely safe and only safer from some kinds of rape, if you avoid giving opportunity to a potential rapist. You are safer in a group. You are safer if you are not incapacitated. You are safer not being alone at a time when predators are known to be, or in a place where they are known to be. You are safer, but not completely safe, dressing in a way that will be interpreted by some rapists that you are secretly keen to have sex. You are safer out of a date that goes against your gut instincts. Safer in a public area with a stranger or acquaintance you feel unhappy about. What is very sad is that some of these instincts seem to be damaged by rape and sexual assault, leaving previous victims at greater rush of a second assault. You are safer out of a relationship that seems to be pushing commitment faster than want to give it. Safer out of a relationship that has any hint of aggression or control. I was brought up to think this way and when I see friends not behaving this way, there is general concern for them in my group, because they are obviously at more risk in ways. I realise that comes with the potential to exacerbate rape myths but frankly i think that has to be confronted on the chin and a nuanced message sent out incorporating information about consent, how the justice system responds to rape, risk factors for rape, especially to groups who are known to be at greater risk to start with, and emphasising appropriate culpability at the same time. I don't think that the dialogue around consent issues has been properly had and I think there is a failure to understand that men often have no idea what the expectation is. To say they shouldn't be having sex with someone who had disclosed in retrospect that they were too inebriated to give proper consent is not fair if it's accepted that sex CAN happen consensually even when drink is involved. You may feel everyone knows the difference between somewhat inebriated and too drunk to consent but I know men who are terrified that they will get this wrong-but who are never going to stop having one night stands. At least not for now.

No, I'm really not at all, as I have clearly stated I have worked in this field and am interested in where you got the research you say backs your claims up. Simply the name of the researcher if you can't find which institution they are affiliated to would be enough.

If you don't have any, then that's fine, but it would be more honest of you to state clearly that these are merely your unfounded beliefs, rather than to infer that they are the result of research, don't you think?

Unfounded personal belief is also fine, but when you continue to belittle more knowledgeable people than you based on that, it starts to look a little bit as if you're not actually interested in honest debate, but are merely being dogmatic.

Again, dogmatism also has it's place, but that place is probably not here.

So, I ask again, with no ulterior motive other than genuine curiosity, do you have the names of the researchers you have quoted?

I'm on my phone here but l ishoul be able to oblige... Interesting how many posters think they are the only ones with any integrity or self preservation instincts when it comes to talking about research. I do need to know exactly what research you're referring to as my post covered a lot of ground. And may I in response ask for some research on the opposing views that have been put forward on the thread-not about how rape myths lead to more rape, but showing that

There is no correlation between rape and life/situational circumstances,
There is no correlation between avoidance/resistance behaviour during sexual assault and uncompleted rape.
There is no correlation between communication issues and rape.
There is no correlation between rape and behaviors seen as 'safe' when on a night out-not drinking to excess, staying in a group, not walking home alone.
There is no correlation between stranger rape and being alone in certain areas at night.
There are no 'risk factors' for either stranger rape or rape by partners
Government campaigns to promote 'sensible' behaviors for women have been useless in preventing rape.

I do not need to see data showing that educating perpetrators is more helpful, or that rape myths lead to more rape.

Hi gone, good to see you back.

Do you have that information for me?

Thanks.

All a bit sweeping and unnecessary if the focus can be tightened. Haven't you learnt about risk? Some things with the potential for danger can be reasonably safe if precautions are taken..but if you'd rather live exactly as you want to while claiming the only other option is to sit in a box, it's your funeral. Or box, as it were...

gone my conclusion is sound, following through from the premise that less rapists mean less rape. If you agree with that premise what is concluded is perfectly valid. Unless I have committed a logical fallacy or my reasoning is flawed in which case I'd take it as a kindness if you could show me my error.

If you happen to disagree with my premise, then we are in the realms of opinion, and our conclusions are going to be wildly different.

As to the difference between us again I would like you to point me at where I have insulted you. No really do so, because I haven't and I actually find it insulting how you would attempt to poison the well to give you a let out in offering an effective rebuttal couple with trying to reduce this all down to opinion.

Your position you evidently feel is worthwhile swaying other people to it, yet when I am trying to sway yours you retreat into the subjective ground of opinion.

For the record I am not a feminist either but my views are in very close alignment with feminism when it comes to rape.

Actually eunuchs are still capable of piv sex, they just cannot impregnate the concubines, the patriarchy at its most creative

Live in a harem surrounded by eunuchs I suppose.
Though your husband could still rape you.

There are behaviours that place women at greater risk from partner rape? Would those be things like, sharing a bed with one's partner? Undressing when they are present in the house? That sort of thing?

I would assume the number one behaviour that places women at greater risk from partner rape is:

Being in a heterosexual relationship.

If you decided to take the risk and are in a relationship with a man, getting pregnant is dangerous, that's often when abusive behaviour starts because you're at his mercy, then.

So, my rape-prevention advice to women would be:

1. Don't be in a relationship with a man
2. Don't share housing with a man
3. Don't get married to a man
4. Don't get pregnant if you live with a man/are in a relationship with a man.

Of course, the men who are thus in no relationships might turn to raping women they know instead of women they are dating, so:

5: Don't get to know any men if you can at all avoid it.

Thus, you reduce your risk of acquaintance rape. The only thing left then is stranger rape, where you have a better chance at getting a conviction for the rapist.

Is it not our responsibility to ensure that as many rapists are locked up in prison as possible?

Take responsibility! End your heterosexual relationship now! Get a sterilisation!

(Should I add a sarcasm tag?)

The main thing i have learnt from mumsnet is to only post when i am absolutely and completely sure of my facts and can back it up if necessary

Otherwise i either caveat it or keep my trap shut...that way i dont look like a complete twat

In my opinion obviously

I think you're going to have to oblige gone, my searches all seem to come up with the research that Buffy has come up with, which you suggested was incorrect or irrelevant. So, as I said, a name or academic institution would be great.

I don't think you can oblige, because a) it was obvious I was talking about the research in your last post and b) I have worked in the field and haven't seen those particular pieces of research.

Do you have even the names or institutions the researchers were based at, and then I can go and look on Athens or one of the other academic search engines to find the original study.

The research sounds really interesting. I would like to learn more about it. Perhaps you could oblige.

I would love to oblige, but (a) you haven't specified what research you want and (b) you're being disingenuous.

No, non-consensual is not synonymous with unwanted! Research into why consent may be given for unwanted sexual advances would be very helpful in making unwanted and non-consensual one and the same.

That research sounds fascinating, do you have a reference for it?