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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Would you rescind offer of help?

36 replies

DraenorQueen · 05/05/2016 19:04

I've been awarded a promotion at work which will leave a vacancy in my old role. There are a few people suitable, a couple of whom I'm friendly. One male colleague, who I'm friendly with in a mentor/student kind of way messaged me asking for advice on his application. Of course, that's fine, but I made it clear I'd offer similar help to anyone else who wanted it.

Then in further conversation he said, "See, I think I have a natural advantage being male. I feel I could hammer discipline (school job!) and I'd be better for day to day people management." (Implying I've not done a good job?!) When I predictably sent a rather curt objection he protested "well that's what girls always tell me. I don't care how I get it, I'll charm (winky face)"

I feel like not offering any help at all now. I feel disappointed. He comes across, I feel, as quite immature with some views I don't like. Or am I over-reacting at the "natural advantage" comment?

OP posts:
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DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease · 07/05/2016 22:44

I wouldn't feel comfortable helping someone who I knew had this attitude to be in a position of influence over young people, their minds, their education. He's given you reason to withdraw your offer of help, and compounded it with a wink. "charm"? "winky face"? Grr, wanky face more like it.

WriteforFun1 · 07/05/2016 19:34

I would pass that email on to those recruiting.

I'd also say "you don't need my help and btw I think you're very unprofessional".

grimbletart · 07/05/2016 17:42

So, if he believes he has a natural advantage being male, he doesn't need your help then does he?

PalmerViolet · 07/05/2016 17:22

Some things that stood out for me:

"See, I think I have a natural advantage being male.

I think he may well be right here. Supposedly feminised teaching is overrepresented by men at the top of the profession. Probably because their dicks make them better at something or other?

I feel I could hammer discipline (school job!)

Well, how? By being shouty and masculine? Is that what school discipline is supposed to be about? Why does being male help?

and I'd be better for day to day people management."

How again? He doesn't seem to display much in the way of self-awareness, so how does he think he's going to be able to manage others?

"well that's what girls always tell me. I don't care how I get it, I'll charm "

That just makes him sound a bit creepy.

In al, just based on what you wrote in your OP, he sounds like he's at about the right level for him right now. Any more responsibility would probably be beyond his abilities.

WellErrr · 07/05/2016 16:13

So pissed off, I feel like I'm surrounded by people who have this secret understanding that men will just naturally assume leadership.

You are.

Welcome to the patriarchy, which once seen, can never be unseen.

Rollinginthevalley · 07/05/2016 12:20

Anyone who thinks they would be 'naturally better' t a job because they're male, is unfitted for that job, by definition, it seems to me.

Look, we all know there's an old boys' club - that the other side of the competition men seem to play with each other is that they'll close ranks to support each other. So why don't women feel they shouldn't do the same?

I'd be telling your colleague and the line manager about this man's unsuitability for the role because of the reason he thinks he's suitable. It's really crap reason, unsubstantiated & unprofessional - it's not drawing on what actual skills & expertise he has. It will be difficult for him to learn & improve, if that's his mindset.

I think you could make a really solid argument that this man's prejudice & sexism are barriers to his improvement & progress as a professional.

shinynewusername · 07/05/2016 11:03

How depressing that schools are apparently full of men like this, no doubt passing their prejudices on to the next generation Sad

IfTheCapFitsWearIt · 07/05/2016 11:00

Just to add, if this was the other way round, eg if you had email him for advice, then said something along the lines of, I shouldn't worry though, as us sisters stick together ;) and we are far better at multi tasking which is essential in the role your role

I don't think he would any qualms in going straight to his boss or interview panel with it. So why should you?

IfTheCapFitsWearIt · 07/05/2016 10:53

I am Shock at this, please pass on his emails to your boss or interview panel. They need to see them.

It would be awful to think of him gaining this job, when his true character could have been shown.

PreemptiveSalvageEngineer · 07/05/2016 10:39

Oooh, I like AskBasil's suggestion.

Rollinginthevalley · 07/05/2016 10:02

to moan how his dept in his new school is all female bar him and the head of department. He quickly backtracked when I went off

Such comments reveal their speakers as weak in their jobs, and lacking in common sense, let alone professional expertise.

AskBasil · 07/05/2016 09:52

I'd advise the interviewing panel to ensure that when they get to the equality question, they focus quite strongly on it, particularly with regard to sex equality.

AyeAmarok · 07/05/2016 09:10

I think if the boss mentions the candidates to you, when she mentions The Man, you should just roll your eyes, and if she asks why you did that/what do you think then you can just say that he told you he thinks he should get the job because he's a man and is therefore "naturally better".

Then she can make her own mind up.

Specky4eyes · 07/05/2016 08:41

I wouldn't have took the comment "I'd be better for day to day people management." as a slight against me but against the fellow female applicants.

Is using his charm likely to work with the interviewer as I do know of many (pathetic) woman who go all giggly when in a man's company?

I would not forward the emails as I don't feel that is fair on him as he may of meant it all tongue in cheek but I would offer help to the female colleague in the remit of being fair and unbiased.

Hopefully you will be asked your opinion on who is best suited for the role and it is then that you can give your views - put across in a professional way of course, but with a little wry dig at what he said if appropriate.

Ultimately you have still got to work along side these people so keep it all "above board" in your approach and be able to justify anything that you say to the interviewer about both applicants.

DraenorQueen · 07/05/2016 08:28

Hello all, thanks for the responses. I'm glad you lot feel as I do. I mentioned the "natural advantage" comment to a male friend who's in the same profession and he replied "well he probably does in fairness, "and went on to moan how his dept in his new school is all female bar him and the head of department. He quickly backtracked when I went off it! So pissed off, I feel like I'm surrounded by people who have this secret understanding that men will just naturally assume leadership.

In terms of the colleague, I've been cool but professional but had a good chat with female colleague before I left yesterday and she's definitely going to apply. However, male colleague was in with the boss as I left. Probably discussing his manliness. I will certainly let you know the outcome!

OP posts:
WellErrr · 07/05/2016 08:10

'You haven't 'charmed' me. I do not feel comfortable assisting someone with such blatantly and disgracefully sexist views to progress in a position of influence.
I hope that you will reflect on this and I wish you luck with improving your attitude towards women in the future.'

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 07/05/2016 08:05

Urgh he sounds like a complete knob. Is there any chance this was a joke? Is he known for having a shit and really inappropriate sense of humour.

AyeAmarok · 06/05/2016 17:34

Urgh. Pleeeeease come back and tell us that the much more pleasant and capable woman got the job!

What a dick he sounds.

Rollinginthevalley · 06/05/2016 17:26

I would still offer advice which would major on telling your male colleague to take the time to re-consider his sexist remarks and reviewing his whole approach to managing people. I would tell him you were shocked at his remarks and he has gone down in your estimations as a consequence

This.

Play high status. You're senior to him, and he's taking the mick by saying something like that to you. Don't take it personally, give him advice from your greater experience & knowledge.

Men can assume they are 'naturally' superior - masculine privilege. Demonstrate that he's not.

EBearhug · 06/05/2016 13:34

Why does he think being a man makes him better at discipline and day-to-day people management? I don't deny that being a man gives him a natural advantage, but I don't think he's showing much awareness of how patriarchy works.

My advice to him would be to go and learn about unconscious bias, and if he really thinks he's so great at people management, he'll need to be able to describe why, with concrete examples. But mostly, I'd be wanting to tell him to fuck off, then I'd go and help the fab woman with boosting her confidence.

PreemptiveSalvageEngineer · 06/05/2016 12:01

Nothing to add. Just Shock

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 06/05/2016 11:59

I so want you to tell him to say all that in his interview because 'the boss will love his confidence'.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 06/05/2016 09:13

"I have a natural advantage being male".

I can't think that anybody would think it's appropriate to say this, even more so to a female colleague.
What an arse. Will you be asked your opinion on the candidates to replace you? If so, I would be sure to give my opinion :)

sooperdooper · 06/05/2016 08:56

Ugh that's just awful! I would definitely pass on his ridiculous sexist comments to whoever is going to be on the panel, either by email or face to face but with a copy of what he's said to prove you're not overreacting.

He sounds awful, patronising and utterly unsuitable for a management position with any more responsibility

shinynewusername · 06/05/2016 08:49

I think you should forward the email to your boss, or at least inform her of the content. What would you do if he had said he would be better at the job because he is white and naturally more intelligent (or whatever)? He doesn't sound like someone who should be in a leadership role.