I am a woman because I say so

MrsJoeyMaynard yes!! That's exactly my thinking - they aren't challenging gender stereotypes at all, they're just reinforcing boring outdated stereotypes!

Why can't men who want to wear make up, dresses, high heels or whatever just do that, as a man - that challenges gender stereotypes. And why is a child who wants to do similar branded trans, why can't we accept that a male child can play with a doll or a pink pony or have long hair in braids without having to be declared transgender.

The more I hear of the trans ideas the more I think they're pushing gender stereotypes backwards, not forwards at all

What if they don't identify as gender fluid? Do you apply the label coercively?

No blink. They are men who like wearing dresses and make up. Just like women who wear trousers and no make up are just that.

No need for rediculous labels to make special snow flakes feel warm and fuzzy.

Are they now.

I wear trousers and have no makeup on most of the time. But sometimes I like to put on a dress, heels, and makeup.

Am I gender fluid, too? Or is that a name for only male snowflakes?

A lot of men still wear dresses out on makeup and call themselves men. These people are gender fluid.

I'm a cat.

There's a lot a really like about being a human, but one thing that I like about cats is they can lie pressed against the radiator when it's warm. So I think I'm going to keep all my human privileges and also be a cat.

Now, I just need to find another woman to be my servant.

Incidentally, DS2 insisted today that he was not a boy. He said that he was a diggy tractor with forks (for hay bales and suchlike), and got very upset when contradicted by DS1.

Perhaps surprisingly, this claim has not turned him, even temporarily, into anything that anyone else might mistake as a diggy tractor. He has remained a human boy in every measurable way.

I think one of the things that annoys me about all this is the notion spouted that transgender is "challenging gender norms"

I don't know if I'm missing something here, but - How is it challenging gender norms to suggest that a biological male who is drawn to stereotypically girly things like pretty dresses and make up and so on is actually a woman? Or that a biological female who is drawn to stereotypically boyish things is actually a man? It looks a damn sight more like reinforcing gender stereotypes to me.

Why does it seem like there so few men out there challenging gender stereotypes by saying "I like wearing dresses and make up and high heels and I'm a man"?
I'd be more than happy to support men's rights to wear whatever they like and still call themselves men.

Yes you have muddled them up. Grayson Perry likes to wear outrageous frocks occasionally in public but is very happy to state he is a heterosexual man.

Ooh sorry I thought it had been written by Paris Lees. It makes much more sense now. I still think there is something in what Grayson Perry said "I’m saying you’ve got to look forward, mate. Women are always looking forward." Why can't a man wear a dress, make up and heels, and still be considered a man?

Wicked lazy, what are you talking about?

That was written by Grayson Perry. He is a man and has never suggested otherwise.

Paris Lees is an insufferable narcissist.

not sure how useful my reading list would be but the things I ended up revisiting when thinking about trans issues were Sartre , Kirkegaard and DeBeauvoir as well as Wittgenstein
about the argument between existence and essence and the definition of the individual and in particular the Sartre arguments about choice in Existentialism and Humanism

this may or may not be very helpful: I am a pure hobbyist and have no formal training or expertise in philosophy but I find reading around the subject and trying out thought exercises fascinating and it does help me frame my thoughts about a variety of useful things in my life and work

If someone says they are a woman. They are a woman. If someone says they are a man. They are a man. Maybe not scientifically. But if someone identifies as either man or woman or even neither. That is what they are

Not even transactivists believe that. If they did, they wouldn't feel the need to shut down discussion of women's issues such as obstetric care and FGM by bleating that it is transphobic to talk about issues that don't affect TW.

"If someone says they are a woman. They are a woman. If someone says they are a man. They are a man. Maybe not scientifically."

So what... um... magically?

I have just emailed Grazia to explain why they have lost me as a reader. Their email is [email protected], if anyone else wants to follow suit.

"Men are always looking back to a time when men were men and trying to bring that back. I’m saying you’ve got to look forward, mate. Women are always looking forward.Men are always looking back to a time when men were men and trying to bring that back. I’m saying you’ve got to look forward, mate. Women are always looking forward."

This was written by a man who was too afraid, too uncomfortable, too something to "be himself" and still use the title man. Instead of looking forward, keeping his penis, and dressing how he likes and using whatever mannerisms he likes, he tells others and himself wait... obviously I must be a woman!

How closely is it related to sexuality? I dated a cross dresser when I was a teenager, until he said he wanted a sex change. I liked the fishnets and eyeliner, but I liked his penis too. He wanted to go out publicaly in female garb, and I think he felt "becoming" a woman was the easiest way to not get mocked or grief..He had also had a strange humiliation fetish I wouldn't indulge in, that made me think he was a bit loony tunes, but don't think that's common. How do they really feel about the op? I could happily live as a man, dress like a man etc, but I'm quite fond huge understatement of my "equipment" and wouldn't let anyone near it with a knife!

Didactylos any good reads you advise?

never thought any of my philosophy reading would ever come in useful but current issues in trans identity have caused me to revisit it all again and I've been surprised how useful its been in helping me clarify the sense of unease I have on the subject
but have never felt the need to post anything about Wittgenstein before

I also identify as amazed that Wittgenstein has turned out to be useful after all these years, but excellent post, Didactylos.

Grazia can fuck right off. I bought their shitty rag the other week because it was a quid. If they're going translala they can kiss my future quids bye bye.

I don't know who this Paris Lee joker is and I don't want to know. My blood pressure can't handle it.

Meanwhile transwankers have vandalised the Stonewall monument because it isn't trans enough. Orwellian nightmare indeed.

I identify as not drunk

Reality is consensual

not to get all Wittgenstein about it but the meaning of a word is its use in our language : you can argue that definitions of a word might change over time but if you suddenly declare that black is now called green, sewing is now called swimming, man is now called woman then you cant be surprised when other people who do sharing your frame of reference, who understand certain things are meant by green, black, swimming or woman don't follow your lead and accept that you have redefined their use of the word, its meaning and their reality. I agree with Grayson Perry in this - X has a say in how they are defined too

On a tangential thought: if we are unable to articulate a concept/a grouping/a definition/a socially understood meaning for something we lose the ability to discuss it - Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. Which is the main problem of expanding the set 'female' to include those formerly described as 'male', we lose the ability to define the group and therefore discuss shared experiences or problems

I identify as a unicorn, which is a shame, as I hate glitter.