Danielle Muscato

Sarah /Will Franken got loads of press coverage during last year's Edinburgh Fringe.

Stand up comedy isn't my thing so I've no idea if she /he was (a) funny and genuinely exploring transitioning (b) not funny but genuinely exploring transitioning (c) funny but just using the idea as a USP to distinguish her/ his show from the zillions of other Fringe comedy shows or (d) neither funny nor genuine.

So far as (b) Andrew O'Neill for example is a transvestite who makes a very serious point about what men can or can't wear or look like and the prejudices against men who present they way he does. Unfortunately he is not very funny.

Here's another Danielle-type transwoman with evolving feelings.

LOLOLOL this person is really upset because they're constantly misgendered.

Because people assume this person is male, because er, ...

Well, you judge for yourself.

Every time one of these threads comes up, particularly if it is not on FWR but on somewhere else on the thread, the whole notion of the 'female penis' is mentioned.

And then a number of women will be WTF?

It will be explained to them that most trans women have a penis.

And they change their minds about trans women. Because the whole thing has been based on keeping women in ignorance.

In the olden days, if a poster said Transwoman Clare is a man, or say things like 'Clare and his beard' their post would be deleted.

Nobody reporting them anymore as so many have had their views changed.

It is rude to answer on another poster's behalf, particularly when your previous posts indicate that you are hostile to the OP's POV. I don't care if you disagree, hence me pointing out that you're not a moderator here

Point to the posts where either I or Kimmy (I'm not sure which of us "your " is referring to )have been hostile to the OP's point of view.

I wonder what has happened to MN moderation.

In the olden days, if a poster said Transwoman Clare is a man, or say things like 'Clare and his beard' their post would be deleted.

Yet this thread is full of posts using the 'wrong' pronouns and calling Danielle a man that have not been deleted.

I wonder why.

emperor
If you decide to pretend you do not understand something and wilfully misinterpret a post then you will get rude people like me pointing out the bloody obvious.

I would apologise if I were remotely sorry. But in the same way you don't care if lass disagrees, I don't care that you think I'm rude. I do care that you were rude to lass for pointing out your hypocrisy.

As to your OP I am happy you posted it as it means I learned about atheist activism this afternoon. Til today I had never heard of Danielle. As I said before, due to her gender presentation I respond to her as a straight female, namely, I still see her as an attractive man.

Having now read her coming out statement from November 2014 that announced she intended transitioning in the near future but in terms of gender presentation, that it can take months and years, I assume 18 months on she is taking it very slowly.
Possibly she fears that public reaction to her appearance will have a negative effect on her activism/public speaking/career. ie. she won't be taken seriously. She wouldn't be the first.
www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/12/30/comedian-who-came-out-as-transgender-reverts-back-to-a-man/

I am not hostile to your OP at all, but nor am I hostile to the trans community.

Oh for goodness sake. You misinterpreted Japab's post. Kimmy didn't. This happens all the time on MN. Before you jumped in and called her rude I was just about to post a " thanks, that makes it clear " type post.

She was not rude but you were - to her and now to me. I take it the irony of your calling out Kimmy about being rude and then your snide remark about MN needing a moderator escapes you.

I think Kimmy was just explaining what Japab's response meant.

His comment "In all likelihood a biological female who says similar will be treated the same."was not very clear.

You took it to mean he was referring to a woman who lacked a vagina etc. Reading it again I think it's clear he meant a biological woman turning up and saying she was really a man.

I don't see what is rude or answering for other people about that or merits a telling off.


I see things about Danielle and think it must be some kind of performance art thing. I can't believe that the predominant way of thinking (that I encounter in real life) is to accept an XY individual, with full beard, no surgery, no hormones, etc. as a women because the indivual says so. It has to be a piss take, surely.

^ But if you have complete female physiology and tell your GP that you're really a man (that doesn't have a penis or testicles) you will be taken seriously.

The point the other poster is making is: I, who have had and breastfed three kids, and still have breasts and uterus could go to my GP tomorrow and say:
I want to be a man.
I would then be given counselling, testosterone and dress as a man with surgical options presumably.

I was quoting Japab on the "accepted as women" He seemed to think there is a possibility some would think the 3 hirsute women aren't women.

The sanitary towels bin is fair enough. Unless people think transmen should be using female toilets only unless they have had surgery.
My husband has just informed me the men's toilets at his work now have a sanitary disposal bin in one of the stalls.
He doesn't gives a fuck. Same as he didn't care when cis women would use the mens loo in pubs and clubs to avoid queues.
I find Danielle Muscato attractive. Cute smile, nice beard. In terms of physicality then, I still see her as male.

Um, they're not accepted as women.
They are women

Unlike Danielle who is a big ole bloke.

"In all likelihood would accept as women"

I think you can safely assume that there is not the slightest doubt the women on here accept the 3 women with facial hair as women. Full stop - no further thinking required.

There might be some like me ( vain and shallow) who will think "thank god that's not me , I'd do anything to remove the hair" and others who will just shrug their shoulders and think" good for them"

Japab come off it. Even from those mug shot photos you cannot seriously think there is any comparison between the 3 women and the person called Danielle.

MrsBruceBogtrotter JAPAB, do you really think that a man - albeit one demanding we use female pronouns to refer to him - with a beard will get anywhere near the same kind of reaction as a woman (you know, an actual biological one) with facial hair? Are you really that dim?

All I did was ask a question. Is it the presence of facial hair which is causing the OP difficulty in accepting the individual in question as a woman? If so, then examples of individuals who they in all likelihood would accept as women, but with beards, might help them get around any psychological barrier they might have about accepting a women with a beard. And so I hope this helps her with her queries about how she can accept Danielle. Assuming of course, I was correct in thinking that it is the beard that was a sticking point.

TheEmperorIsNaked It's a piss-take farely. If I went to my GP and said I was really a pony or a spider or a carrot or something, he would think I was mentally ill. But if you have complete male physiology and tell your GP that you're really a woman (that doesn't have breasts, ovaries, uterus) you will be taken seriously.

Fucking ridiculous/misogyny

In all likelihood a biological female who says similar will be treated the same.

The reaction to this situation, will be interesting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3567616/Students-call-sanitary-bins-placed-male-toilets-transgender-men-periods.html#comments