Is freedom of speech at British unis under threat?

ISIL isn't historical. It is contemporary.

Are you saying you are comparing a contemporary illegal state that is enslaving people and carrying out acts of genocide to a historical Zionist state?

Whose job is it to educate people about Zionism?

I agree - I think it's getting much worse and I don't think the new president (who bizarrely refused to condemn the lovely women-loving ISIL) is going to help at all.

www.independent.co.uk/student/news/muslim-students-from-goldsmiths-university-s-islamic-society-heckle-and-aggressively-interrupt-a6760306.html

www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/feb/02/goldsmiths-comedian-kate-smurthwaite-free-speech-show-feminist-campaigners

It is worrying that these 'educated' young people aren't letting people with different views speak.

Oh, and I don't, and never have conflated zionists with Israel. That would be incredibly antisemitic. I am comparing one group of terrorists with another.

I'm sorry that you don't know the history of zionism. I do. It's not my place to educate you on it.

Beyond that, Zionism wasn't compared to Islamism. Zionism, an ideology, was compared to ISIL, an illegal state.

ISIL is carrying out genocide, according to the UN. There isn't a genocidal Zionist state.

The conflation of Zionism (an ideology) with Israel (a state recognised by the UN) is part of the controversy. That is implied by comparing Zionism to an illegal state. What are we supposed to assume this Zionist state is? Presumably Israel.

So Zionism gets conflated with Israel which then gets conflated with Jewish people and/or Israeli citizens.

I read somewhere that the NUS will no longer commemorate Holocaust Day, because it's "Zionist" and some other reason that eludes me right now.Just when you think you've got a handle on people, they come along and do something really awful. Zionism is to Judaism what ISIL is to Islam. Conflating those things and stating that conflation as truth just makes you look like a fucking idiot.

The holocaust was a genocide, which is wrong no matter who the victims are. Refusing to commemorate it because one doesn't like the group of people who were victimized is horrible.

However, I also don't think it is fair to compare Zionism to Islamism. Waging war with neighbouring countries is something many well-respected nations do. As is, sadly, discriminating against ethnic minorities within the country.

The Islamist's terror and abductions and rape and slavery .... is on a whole other level.

Aren't the organisations/individuals that frequently get no platformed terrorist organisations, or those that support terrorism or other acts of violence?

But now, expressing certain ideas has been recast as violence. Which means that Greer or Bindel speaking has been placed in the same category as people who tell others to go and kill.

I don't think that's quite what's happening Buffy. I think it's been cast as hate speech. I really don't think that Greer or Bindel fall into that category but plenty of liberal lefties do.

Needless to say, this is the broader danger of shutting down certain points of view on the simple basis that they are perceived as extreme. Sooner or later, a view that we subscribe to becomes verboten, and that state of affairs is an ill in itself. I abhor the views of racists, holocaust deniers etc. but it's only because people can advance those viewpoints that we can reach a reasoned view on them (I'm not placing Greer or Bindel in that category - a million miles from it - but manfesly some do).

Sorry, the above is a bit muddled, but yep, as a headline point - no-platforming any viewpoint is a crock of shit.

People should not be able to incite acts of violence.

There should presumably still be a right to organise things like sit downs, even though sit downs are illegal.

I don't know enough about what the law is around free speech.

How is Zionism equivalent to ISIL?

She is a bit if an odd one (malia). She seems to have a massive chip in her shoulder for some reason. She also describes anyone no European white as being black. She describes herself as black even though she is actually of north African heritage.

I read somewhere that the NUS will no longer commemorate Holocaust Day

They finally agreed to, but not until some charmer had said that as it was a "white on white" crime it wasn't important.

I read somewhere that the NUS will no longer commemorate Holocaust Day, because it's "Zionist" and some other reason that eludes me right now.

Just when you think you've got a handle on people, they come along and do something really awful. Zionism is to Judaism what ISIL is to Islam. Conflating those things and stating that conflation as truth just makes you look like a fucking idiot.

Quite right I meant Bumble and had a brainfart!

That is a great point Lass

It wasn't my point unless you meant to call Vestal or *Grimarse "lass" !

Stuff like this has always happened in UK universities.

The actual phrase about the media was "mainstream Zionist-led media outlets."

The way you phrase it, it sounds very old. Like, 1935, perhaps.

Actually, it's straight out of 1903: that Jews Control The Media is a trope direct from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

The title of the thread is freedom of speech at British universities, Bumbledumb.

When was the last time any of you were invited to speak at a University? Are they denying you the right to speak also?

It isn't as simple as that. The no-platforming at several universities has taken the form of parts of the NUS attempting to stop people that they disapprove of from speaking to audiences elsewhere on campus that have invited them.

As a concrete example, Germaine Greer was invited to speak at Cardiff, and the union put up a petition to have the invitation withdrawn and threatened demonstrations if the lecture went ahead. That's a little stronger than the union not inviting her to speak on their premises, as is entirely their right.

That is a great point Lass, but a lot of these no platforming scenarios transpire when a speaker is already booked and this or that special interest group decides they don't want the rest of the student body to have the opportunity to listen to their ideas.

If someone has batshit crazy racist or misogynist ideas I'd rather those were tackled in the open and free exchange of ideas, and exposed as such.

I'd rather the idiots and hate-mongers were given a platform. At least we can spot them then.

That tends to be my opinion as well. I like to know who they are.

@Ricardian: The way you phrase it, it sounds very old. Like, 1935, perhaps.

She said Birmingham University, is a “Zionist outpost in higher education,” and has “the largest Jsoc [Jewish student society] in the country”