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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

is this sexist to be commented on every morning

55 replies

moomoome · 22/04/2016 08:44

every morning i go into work the man i sit next too needs to comment on what im wearing. i work in a professional job and always wear professional dress. many of my colleges wear t-shirt and jeans etc. im aware that my background (Hertfordshire girl, mostly dresses) makes me a bit different from my rural Australian female colleges (pants and shirt). but is this not a bit sexist to greet me with comments about my dress? his comments im sure are kindly met but he and the boss see no issue in this. i find it extremely sexist as my ability to do my job is not based on what i wear.

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LaContessaDiPlump · 29/04/2016 13:08

No, we don't have to be kind. I try to be, though, as a general rule (and not just to men re: compliments)!

One can have boundaries (i.e. pushing back when comments make you uncomfortable, however well-intentioned) and still be nice to others.

PalmerViolet · 29/04/2016 12:54

the kindest interpretation is option B

We don't have to be kind.

(slightly off topic, but it's no less true)

scallopsrgreat · 29/04/2016 12:26

I'm not sure the fact that he doesn't say similar comments to other women is an indication of him not being sexist. The fact is he is singling out a woman to make comments on about her appearance everyday. He wouldn't single out a man for the same treatment. I would imagine that would be considered very weird generally and probably wouldn't even cross his mind no matter how the man was dressed.

Degustibusnonestdisputandem · 29/04/2016 10:50

BuffytheReasonableFeminist yup, shit isn't it? Angry It is slowly getting better I think, but there are still a lot of racist, sexist idiots in country Oz.

FaithAscending · 29/04/2016 10:24

I think he's unreasonable to comment all the time. I think I'd respond in kind so he gets how weird it is, example:
Ah moomoome I see you're wearing the dress and tights today.
Er, yes Dave and you're in jeans and t-shirt?!

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 29/04/2016 10:07

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Degustibusnonestdisputandem · 29/04/2016 09:57

BuffytheReasonableFeminist I know, she should absolutely challenge it.... but then she runs the risk of being branded "the whinging pom" Sad I love my country, but it is so bloody backwards sometimes...

LaContessaDiPlump · 29/04/2016 09:56

Hmm. He doesn't do it to other women, so it's hard to generalise imo; op has described their dress sense as very different to hers, so maybe that's why. My feeling is that he thinks he's being friendly and is trying to pay a compliment. However, she's said she doesn't like it and complimenting people every day is socially odd anyway.

So to my eyes he's gone from 'nice guy paying compliment' to either 'twat who thinks his opinion should be heard (esp by underlings/women) because HE'S PAYING A COMPLIMENT DAMMIT' or 'nice guy with social awareness issues paying compliment'.

Since we have no corroborating evidence of his day-to-day behaviour, the kindest interpretation is option B. With option A, he could indeed be a sexist twunt.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 29/04/2016 09:46

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Degustibusnonestdisputandem · 29/04/2016 09:18

I'm from country Oz (though have lived here for 9 years) - and yes, it's definitely a cultural thing/ problem still there Sad If it were me, I'd make a point of everytime he makes a comment, as others have said, throw one back at him (nice shoes, etc.), probably with a raised eyebrow/head tilt.... Wink

My sister works in a male-dominated industry, and was asked by the HR manager, no less (!!!) why she had never had children. Same manager is now suspended due to sexual harassment. It's shitty and needs to change!

Thank goodness my dad came from a family of feminists!

LaContessaDiPlump · 29/04/2016 09:17

Sorry, typo above - include the pictures in the word doc, is what I meant to say?

LaContessaDiPlump · 29/04/2016 09:16

op this is my suggestion:

  1. Get one of those boards you can push pins into (like they have for posters).

  2. Plan your wardrobe for a full week. Take phots of each dress. Print out photos on A4 paper, with space next to photos so you can write in it.

  3. Go to work with noticeboard.

  4. When he comments on Monday's outfit, write the comment in next to the dress. If he queries this, say 'Well you always comment on my clothes Dave, so I thought I'd go through my whole wardrobe and see what YOU think is most appropriate for work. Unless you'd like me to bring all my clothes in so you can go through them with a scoresheet? Might be quicker.' Then smile.

  5. Write down his comments (if he dares to make any) for the rest of the week so you have a record.

Alternatively, do a version of the above but in a word document for your own reference with the pictures though). Record for a month, then send to him and your boss with a note that this is the monthly digest of Dave's comments on your clothing. Ask if they'd like to receive it weekly or quarterly in future Wink

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 29/04/2016 09:03

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/04/2016 08:58

I haven't read all the way back but I don't think any one has said commenting every day, which is what this man is doing, is normal behaviour or defensible.

There is a huge difference between making a comment on an obviously new dress or suit ( which to me seems normal and fine and commonplace ) and commenting every single day on what she is wearing.

You call this "entitlement" fine , up to you. His behaviour is not normal , nor in my experience remotely commonplace.

PinkIndustry · 28/04/2016 23:01

I don't think the OP's colleague is odd or creepy, Lass. Commenting on the appearance of an (often younger) woman by an (often older) man is actually very common place. As can be seen by reading this thread, many have defended his behaviour on the grounds that this is 'normal' nice behaviour. Others have disliked his behaviour and told their own anecdotes of experiencing the same kind of thing.

So it's not odd or unusual and it may not even be creepy. The man in question may think he is behaving in a perfectly pleasant, 'normal,' socially acceptable way. That's the real point of this discussion - the man is behaving in a way that shows he feels instinctively entitled to make comments about the OP's appearance; he feels entitled to have a vested interest in her attention.

Also, it's not easy for the OP to ask him to stop without her appearing rude or as if she is making a fuss over nothing. The inventive suggestions on this thread about ways to put a stop to this in a humorous fashion attest to that.

catkind · 28/04/2016 22:56

Some people are sexist. I'm well aware of that. My contribution to trying to reduce that is to start by trying not to make sexist assumptions myself, and to challenge it when I see other people making them.
I should keep off the feminism boards, it never ends well.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/04/2016 22:53

And what difference does it make whether or not it's sexist ? His behaviour is deemed to be bad and justifies complaining about if it's deemed to be sexist but not if it's just irritating and annoying?

I think it's a pity that irritating and distracting behaviour can't just be called out.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/04/2016 22:42

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/04/2016 22:39

I don't have a twitter account and I'm not particularly interested in having my opinions validated or otherwise by twitterers or whatever they are called.

What is relevant here is odd and creepy behaviour by someone who clearly does not understand how to interact with his office co-workers.

I know this is unbelievable on here but in 35 years of working in various offices I haven't come across any which is the hot bed of leching and leering which apparently the norm. I have encountered bullying, bad tempers and odd people (of both sexes) one wants to avoid.

In the context here his behaviour breaches good employment place conduct. It makes the OP uncomfortable and is unacceptable because it is crossing personal space boundaries. I agree with cat's suggestion of a short, simple statement telling him that.

I'm not sure what practical difference it makes to the particular situation whether it's sexist or not. Is the OP only going to tell him to stop it if FWR validate his behaviour as being sexist as opposed to being irrelevant and irritating and over personal?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/04/2016 21:53

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Earlgreywithmilk · 28/04/2016 21:45

Think yourself lucky. When I was younger a much older colleague of mine said, upon me bending over to pick something up whilst wearing a skirt "my god, you just made me cream my trousers"...
I was 20 he was about 50. He seemed to think this was perfectly acceptable.

catkind · 28/04/2016 21:40

So, women assume men are letching all the time so the woman would feel uncomfortable where a man wouldn't so therefore the man's sexist? Wouldn't he also be being sexist to NOT banter/admire ties (whatever he intends it as) with a female colleague if he would with a male?

I'm basing this on OP's saying that she's dressing differently and more smartly. Obviously if there's a snazzy-tie and suited chap sitting on the other side who gets ignored then it does sound like there's some sexism going on.

Look, to keep it simple - "could you stop commenting on my clothes, I don't like it, ta." If he keeps doing it then he's way out of order and complain complain complain.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/04/2016 20:27

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catkind · 28/04/2016 20:14

Um, if Bert thought half the office were thinking about shagging him, I'd think Bert was deluded and vain. And would avoid bantering with him to make sure I didn't encourage his attitude.
If he was uncomfortable about his clothes being different and let people know that the comments were annoying him then they'd stop. And if they didn't stop he'd be completely entitled to complain.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 28/04/2016 18:46

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