Brighton primary school admissions - gender identity

Hairy

I'd imagine they'd be shuffled into another box, this time labelled 'gender fluid' if they changed their minds. Or there'd be talk of them 'transitioning' again.

When you could avoid all this by just not asking about gender at all. It should be of no relevance to the provision of primary education and we should be seeking to eliminate its current (very problematic) effects.

Hairy your poems are brilliant

Great poem Hairy .

What I'll happen if these children change their mind? Is that allowed? Would the school cope? Would the world stop? Will society as we know it break down?

Talk about constricting children. The school is doing a really good job of this.

Another round of applause for Hairy

Unfortunately the American College of Pediatricians is very right-wing and are, for example, anti-choice. Which is disappointing as they are pretty spot on with regards to this issue.

Another excellent poem, Hairy. A fitting tribute to VW.

Eugenics

Chemically castrating children? What could possibly go wrong?

Hairy that was brilliant and your story about Victoria Wood has brought a tear to my eye.

That statement by The American College of Pediatricians is exactly what needs to be said. And yet, if any of us said half of those things, we would be deleted for being 'inflammatory'.

Such as:

The American College of Pediatricians urges educators and legislators to reject all policies that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex.

People who identify as “feeling like the opposite sex” or “somewhere in between” do not comprise a third sex. They remain biological men or biological women.

A person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking. When an otherwise healthy biological boy believes he is a girl, or an otherwise healthy biological girl believes she is a boy, an objective psychological problem exists that lies in the mind not the body, and it should be treated as such.

According to the DSM-V, as many as 98% of gender confused boys and 88% of gender confused girls eventually accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty.

Conditioning children into believing that a lifetime of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex is normal and healthful is child abuse.

Endorsing gender discordance as normal via public education and legal policies will confuse children and parents, leading more children to present to “gender clinics” where they will be given puberty-blocking drugs. This, in turn, virtually ensures that they will “choose” a lifetime of carcinogenic and otherwise toxic cross-sex hormones, and likely consider unnecessary surgical mutilation of their healthy body parts as young adults.

I wrote another poem because of this Brighton and Hove thing, but a poster suggested it was rather too lengthy (it was) and not likely to be taken seriously (quite so) so I left it to languish in chat and let the thread die. Fair point, well made.

And then I read Victoria Wood had died . She had such a talent for irreverent poetry. And she wrote from a woman's perspective, and she cared about women's issues. She was a feminist, and I have no idea whether she considered herself a radical one but it was obvious that she cared.

"The first day I met my producer, she said, “I’m a radical feminist lesbian.” I thought what would the Queen Mum do? So I just smiled and said, “We shall have fog by tea-time.”
– Victoria Wood

I don't care if my attempts at poetry are silly and pointless, and I'm aware my efforts are paltry, compared to her comic genius, but it doesn't matter. She had her way of doing her bit for women. This is my way of doing my bit. So I'm dedicating this one to the inimitable Victoria Wood and her unforgettable talent. This one's for you, Victoria. You're going to be sadly missed.

Sugar and spice and everything nice
That’s what little girls are made of
Slugs and snails and puppy dogs’ tails
That’s what little boys are made of

How retro! How daft!
How liberals laughed!
The way that society thought then.
As if we’d support
Such retrograde thought
Distinguishing women and men

We’ve come a long way
I’m delighted to say
We’re much more enlightened these days
So if you’re confused
And would be disabused
Allow me to please paraphrase

What are little girls made of?
What are little girls made of?
Why, feelings, and pink
and feminine think
That’s what little girls are made of

And oh, by the way
I’d just like to say that
The stuff that will make you a girl
This scientist said
It’s all in the head
And a little bit how well you twirl

What are little boys made of?
What are little boys made of?
Why, football and minions
And manly opinions
That’s what little boys are made of

So boys must like this
And girls are like that
So please keep that straight in your head
Don’t meet the objective?
Then you are defective
You’d better change gender instead

But in case you have heard
That this stance is absurd
A recycled stereotype
Well, please do ignore
Such a terrible bore
They’ve not yet signed up to the hype

For everyone knows
That Brighton and Hove
Say 4 year olds can choose a gender
Are you blue, are you pink
Do you dance, can you think
The critical questions to ponder

But to those who suggest
This is not a good test
All it shows is personalities
That this isn’t progressive
It’s even aggressive
And children should like what they please

Some people have said
Gender’s not in your head
It’s a limiting way of prescribing
The roles we must play
And the things we must say
And it’s not a great way of describing

Do you think ‘like a girl’?
Do you think ‘like a boy’?
Can we please just let children exist
Please take my suggestion
And please start to question
If “think like a girl” is sexist?

If you want true equality
Reject this mentality
View all gender labels with scepticism
It’s all been re-branded
But we’ve caught it redhanded
‘Gender’: ‘The recycled sexism’

I thought the speaker from (very windy) Brighton was excellent

That was our own StephanieDA.

So many children think they're swans, or ponies, or cats at that age.

WTF Brighton, you poltroons

I wish I'd seen this yesterday as support for the govt consultation as detailed on another thread.

The American College of Pediatricians speaks some sense.

www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children

I thought the speaker from (very windy) Brighton was excellent and laid out exactly why gender identity at this age is a fallacy and ultimately could be very damaging.

It surely can't be homophobia from Brighton council though. Can it? No, I don't believe it is, but I do believe it's a factor in why some people are more comfortable with treating children as definitely transgender at very young ages than giving them space to see if that's honestly going to be the right path for them or not and things like this are a well-meaning but ultimately misguided attempt at responding to the issues.

It's totally normal behaviour for anyone. Because gender constructs are madness. Yes, absolutely!

Oh, I think the amount of children who hate the expectations placed upon them because of their sex is rather big.
At least for those girls who notice that those expectations are placed on them because they're girls. Yes, you know I realised my mistake when I read it back. You're absolutely right and I phrased that badly.

C4 news NOW!

It's very laudable to want to make things easier for the truly tiny amount of children who experience difficulties with the expectations placed upon them by virtue of their sex,

Oh, I think the amount of children who hate the expectations placed upon them because of their sex is rather big.
At least for those girls who notice that those expectations are placed on them because they're girls.

I know that I felt like an alien in primary school because all the girls were girly and I was ... just an ordinary child. Fortunately for me, transgender wasn't a thing at all back then, so I only had to deal with being excluded but never suffered any confusion about my identity.

@Empress: Exactly. I feel like that's the whole point of the transgender movement - to erase butch lesbians and feminine gay men from society so that the gender role boxes will be neat and tidy again.

This is like watching a car crash.

DianaTrent: Acting contrary to the expected norms from your gender is totally normal childhood behaviour.

It's totally normal behaviour for anyone. Because gender constructs are madness.

I just get a overwhelming desire to tell them all to fuck off and let some feminists scoop up their brains that have fallen out because of being so "open-minded".