Brighton primary school admissions - gender identity

I think that the American College of Pediatricians link might simply be a case of even a stopped clock being right twice a day.

At that age my sister would definitely have said boy. What would they have done?

"Gender identity is separate and distinct from sexual orientation and even biological sex." Yes. That is what we are arguing. Gender is also a social construct. It doesn't exist except in society's head.

I agree that what these minority of children are feeling is more acute than what is being described here. And of course they should be offered support. Surely no-one is denying that. No-one wants 10 yr olds to kill themselves. But it is still a valid question to ask that if we removed 'gender identities' and gender in general, would these children be happier and more settled just being what and who they want to be?

"Why do school need to know? Do they treat boys and girls differently? Why on earth else does it matter?" Well this is the nub really.

I so agree with Seneca though. The American College of Pediatricians have very different and bigoted motives. They certainly wouldn't defend women's rights. They are not our allies in this or any other matter.

PrettyBrightFireflies It doesn't really matter whether you agree or disagree because it's not something that revolves around an opinion: it's an established fact that gender dysphoria is a recognised condition and children as young as four and five can and do present with it. This is the precise age in fact when many children do begin to appear distressed. It is entirely different to "gender non conformity" which as most tend to agree is a normal, healthy exploration of self. More children can and should explore and expand the givens and the boundaries of the gendered culture we have inherited.
Children who develop an acute distress about the biological sex they were born into, and I stress the word acute, a distress that leads to withdrawal, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, self harm, suicidal ideation and attempt, substance abuse, dropping out of education...that goes way, way beyond a boy who wants to wear pink and a girl who likes to wear her hair short and climb trees with her brothers.
Gender identity is separate and distinct from sexual orientation and even biological sex. Look it up.
Yes, these children exist in a minority and this tiny section of an application form for schools is designed to meet their need and it is only the ignorant privilege of a majority that ever denies comfort and recognition to a minority. It is vital that children most likely to be excluded from a safe, happy education are catered for. The American Academy of Paediatrics accepts that and its stated policy is that a failure to support leads to more and more problems. How can a child learn if they can't function on a basic level?
This is not a fashion. It's nothing to do with "bonkers parenting" or "right on" Brighton. It's not anti-feminist or sexist? It's got nothing to do with misogyny or the patriarchy. It's got nothing to do with not letting them grow up gay either?
These kids come from all walks of life and all social backgrounds. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean they don't exist and walk among you. Watch out, you might spot some of their parents: they're the ones who are absolutely petrified about all the hate and the ignorance and the denial and the wilful prejudice that persists in an educated, progressive society like ours. They live in pure fear that their children are going to get their heads kicked in at school. The statistics around bullying for kids on the lgbt spectrum are horrific.
Some parents have had child protection services called on them when there is no case to answer because some adults can't get their heads around the fact that kids know who they are. Yes, even kids as young as four and five. One family in the UK were taken to court by CAMHS after the family turned to them for help. The judge threw the case out of court but not before the family had been through hell.
And then the tabloids step in and it all makes things worse for these families. Think on that. Read up a little on what it's really like for a mother to have to cut her ten year old child, who said he felt like a girl, down from a noose because nobody got it. It's alright when it's not happening to you isn't it?

Thankfully we don't live in America. And thankfully we have the well known pro-female Sun Newspaper to enlighten us.

An organization that supports inflicting physical pain on children and gives guidance on how to do it, among a host of other misogynistic and homophobic positions, really does not have credibility on anything involving the welfare of children, in my opinion.

sunburnt and seneca - so what? Disagreeing with someone about one issue doesn't mean you can't agree with them about another.

but who call themselves "The American College of Pediatricians" in order to deliberately confuse themselves with the American Academy of Paediatrics which advocates for a supportive approach to children who struggle with gender dysphoria, an internationally recognised condition.

They are also pro-corporal punishment of children and have a handy little guide on their website called "Guidelines for Disciplinary Spanking."

And this is also from their website : " . . .there is sound evidence that children exposed to the homosexual lifestyle may be at increased risk for emotional, mental, and even physical harm."

They have a anti-children, anti-woman agenda and are populated by people with a fundamentalist, religious right orientation.

Nagging oldies

Well... I hope to raise my children with wisdom, compassion and insight, and I'm certain that this whole trendy craze will reach a plateau. There is such obvious conflict RE women's rights VS Trans...

Great poem hairy, thank you

maybe Ophelia but the new generation will make their own minds up about gender, it's no good us oldies nagging them one way or another

Women had to rise up in the past. We will have to rise up again.

Claudia it really won't go this way once people realise boys can actually wear pink, and if you are a male who is slow at running it's cheating to take female hormones for a couple of years just so you can compete in the women's team.

I'm relieved there's a backlash to this ludicrous form of child abuse, sexism (mostly misogynist), regressive, present day trendy Trans Craze.

when I read this I felt the same as many others, I can't imagine how mixed up being asked what my 'gender' was at the age of 4 could have made me. However sometimes I do wonder that this is the future and perhaps we are going to get a new generation growing up who all have some degree of gender disorder, in much the same way as the current generation seem to have mobile phone attention span disorders. They're still alive despite their obvious idiosyncrasies. Maybe this is just the way things are going to go

Thank you for posting that information Sunburntfactor50, it is extremely helpful to be made aware of this.

Whether you do it intentionally or not, by posting this link you are peddling hate. You have posted a link to a recognised hate group made up of far right wing, homophobic, religious nuts who are not paediatricians but who call themselves "The American College of Pediatricians" in order to deliberately confuse themselves with the American Academy of Paediatrics which advocates for a supportive approach to children who struggle with gender dysphoria, an internationally recognised condition. Therapeutic services from expert clinicians exist on the NHS for the same.

for Hairy.

When I read that gender bollocks I just knew it had to be Brighton.

Thinking back to my childhood. Under the Brighton bollocks I would have identified as a boy. Why? Because I happened to like the interesting (to me) stuff that boys were supposed to do and disliked the (to me) boring stuff that girls were supposed to do - I am talking decades ago here, so I also resented the greater freedom boys were given then.

So, I persuaded mum to cut my hair sort, always wore trousers and often got called sonny. That way I got to do 'boy' stuff.

I grew up to be a straight, 100% heterosexual female. Imagine if I lived in bollocky Brighton today. How screwed up would I be once the faux pyscho mind doctors and ultra-liberal trendies had got hold of me. Do these idiots realise the potential damage they are doing, simply because they don't seem able to tell the difference between gender and sex?

Bog off Brighton.

Why do school need to know? Do they treat boys and girls differently? Why on earth else does it matter?

I'm glad this trans bollocks is starting to get into the media a bit more, with a more sceptical slant.

wonderful poem hairy!

oh, and my daughter insisted that she was a duck at that age...

My son insisted on wearing dresses at this, age 3 and 4, and every time he had a chance to dress up it would be in a princess outfit if there was one, and he was fascinated by high heels. We allowed him to experiment and dress as he wished most of the time -- so he's wear school uniform and get changed into a dress the moment he came back. He used to say it was more comfortable, especially in the summer, and we never make an issue of it. I think that if we had raised the issue about gender identity with him it would have harmed his natural development, it's totally unnecessary, imo. Also, will someone please explain what it means to "feel" like a woman? I might be missing something but for me being a woman is dependent on my biology and all that entails. How can a child of 4 explain what "gender" they identify with?
By the way, my son is now 8 and he seems to not be interested in dresses anymore. His interests are unusual and changing all the time...

love the poem, Hairy.

Also, am encouraged to see this thread.

It's a good thing that there is help for people who are trans. I am sure that is a genuine disorder for some people (and, a convenient one for people looking at a sentence in a male prison who fancy having easier digs). But, I am not sure that surgery is the answer - it does not seem to objectively do much for these people's psychological distress. I assume there are fewer post-op suicides, but, the difficulties of "passing" appear to cause anxieties in themselves.

To suggest that pre-school children are anything other than themselves is ludicrous. Bet that was added to the form by someone who reads Huff Post and has never actually met a child.

My daughter started school as a rabbit. She hopped to school. On hands and feet, like an actual bunny. She wouldn't speak, only twitch her nose and would only answer to "Blossom". Lasted for months.

Most families have a story like that.

Cos it's normal.

(she has long since resumed bi-pedal walking and is mortified when we call her "Blossom". Which we do every now and again for entertainment value)

hairy that is a brilliant poem , and I bet VW would have loved it too xx