I'm giving up.

I wonder if those in the early days of the feminist movement, those who went on hunger strikes etc would have felt betrayed by the relatively watered down version of going on strike from work.

I think what is meant by Everyday Feminism style of activism isn't your unwillingness to risk your neck for feminism, but rather the belief in "gender" as a real thing that should determine who is allowed to be in women's spaces. The Everyday Feminism website has some articles that are ... unfortunate, to say the least. (Can't seem to find any, but I know that some bloggers frequently mention misogynist articles on "Everyday Meninism")

Working towards a subtle shift in attitudes is totally okay, but, and that's the thing, you have to know how the system works and what it is based on.

You can give a depressed person some chocolate and remind her that you care for her ... or you can give her a mask with a smiley face painted on it and ask her to put it on so that you don't have to see her depressed face anymore.

I get the impression that some people's brand of feminism is more like the second approach.

Buffy, oh I totally didn't know that about Everday Feminism. In fact the # had a lot to do with me regaining my interest...the world Aunt describes, so child centred and school centred, puts me off. But perhaps if it was tweaked it would work for me. I believe in flexible working for many reasons but free childcare just means the childfree are subsidising it. And crèches at work..is there nowhere to hide from chikdren!

No idea what your points are, kid. They don't make sense.

"Every major civillization has been a patriarchy and despite being the most inolved with raising the next generation of boys, that same generation, has historically, according to womens studies, treated women like chattel."

^ I've read that bit a few times, and I can't make head or tail of it. Are you saying that women raise children to perpetuate the patriarchy? And thus women make it? So it can't be sexist? (I'm reaching here). Because you're not wrong, exactly with the first part of that, but you're not right either, and the second part is just plain wrong.

And I am LOLing at "the truth is all I offer" I want to take the piss out that, very very much, but I think I'll just let it stand in all its glory.

Sorry, buffy, I think I was getting confused between Everyday Feminism and regular everyday feminism. And the general feeling of being a "not good enough" feminist. I'll be quiet now

"If patriarchy were natural, they wouldn't need to panic that insufficiently indoctrinated children could cause its downfall."

Every major civillization has been a patriarchy and despite being the most inolved with raising the next generation of boys, that same generation, has historically, according to womens studies, treated women like chattel.

I'm also reading a feminist book called rethinking gender in childhood, where he author shows us a teacher who has to intervene every 30 seconds with some boys in order to keep them from dominating the girls in play.

Also alot of feminists argue, that unless we consciously prioritize the feminine, we'll all slip into patriarchal ways.

"Really, annoying kid? You read the disappointment, the frustration and low spirits of the OP, and that was what you came up with to lift her spirits?"

The truth is all I offer. Most women don't feel especially oppressed in the western world or hated by men, which is why only one seventh identify as feminist. The OP, realizing that, is essentially saying YOU NAIVE FOOLs!!! DROWN IN YOUR OWN MESS As THe MALE OPPREssORs TAKE YOU BACK SIXTY YEars!! aka insulting the intelligence of other women. Thus I feel no need to offer a shred of sympathy.

I can't think of any feminist or feminist theory that says women are easily oppressed.

The rape threats that are the reaction to pretty much every feminist article that gets to males' attention are proof that oppressing women is hard - why else would males feel a need to crush even the tiniest and tamest feminist thoughts? Sure, they likely aren't aware that they are working for the patriarchy (unpaid, too, unless you consider their male privilege payment), but many men spend a lot of time and effort on oppressing women. And that's with a patriarchy already in place!

Also, certain political parties have been complaining that sex ed in schools doesn't focus on the traditional (patriarchal) gender roles enough.

If patriarchy were natural, they wouldn't need to panic that insufficiently indoctrinated children could cause its downfall.

I know the thread has moved on a bit, but I wanted to pick up on this, because it has hit an angry nerve with me.

It's more a feeling of having sacrificed and fought for younger women to have the opportunities they do, and feeling betrayed by their disinterest (or perhaps worse, their Everyday Feminism style of activism?).

Well I have an Everyday Feminism style of activism. And it might not be as grand as going on strike, but I influence the women around me to stand up for themselves more on a daily basis, and influence men to see the everyday sexism that is so pervasive. I know it might seem weak or selfish, but I'm not prepared to risk my career or home and this way I'm doing something, rather than nothing. I'm happy to lose friends, partners and be labelled a terf, but my own personal line in the sand is at my own ability to survive independently.

I wonder if those in the early days of the feminist movement, those who went on hunger strikes etc would have felt betrayed by the relatively watered down version of going on strike from work.

Sometimes massive social change happens through a subtle shift in attitudes. That's what me (and my Everyday Feminist friends) are trying to achieve.

Tehku: surely judging them on their appearance makes me just as bad

Are you judging them on their appearance or on their priorities in life? The latter would be a more than reasonable basis for judgement.

Really, annoying kid? You read the disappointment, the frustration and low spirits of the OP, and that was what you came up with to lift her spirits? You're all heart. Give yourself a medal.

Surprise surprise most women don't want to be told they're easily oppressed victims of men. What a shock.

crazycatdad yes it has succeeded! Brilliant isn't it? I still think more signatures will help the cause however

Go on then, Olivia, how are you going to save feminism? (from itself)

I have a sneaking suspicion it just might involve Not Doing Feminism, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong. I'm eccentric that way.

(am very at the lying slags comment, btw. Struggling to place that in the canon of any school of feminism, equalism, or indeed just being-a-decent-humanism that I'm aware of).

With patriarchy and questions about its existence, I always think what the world would be like if it were designed around women instead, then compare.

A matriarchy might, for example, provide universal free childcare for all ages and pay its childcare workers highly. A creche in every office block. Jobs that fit in around school, or schools that fit in around jobs. Free sanpro. Most MPs would be women, 95% of CEOs would be women, gods would be female. Inheritance would be through the maternal line since, obviously, you always know who the mother is. And so on and on.

So when you look at our current society, you begin to see that it's very clearly organised around men's needs. And not just any old men, but (straight, white) men who have a woman at home to do all the wifework. All the childbearing, childrearing, cleaning, cooking, caretaking, school holiday cover, nursing, arsewiping and so forth. It's also very good at keeping the straight white men in power and everyone else out of it.

The patriarchy is not a roomful of Don Draper types smoking pipes, stroking their beards and deciding how they're going to screw women over this week, muha. It's the way society works, how it's designed, who for and who has the power within it.

Olivia you have missed out your most noteworthy refrain:

"I fear for my son's. One day they will be accused of rape by a lying slag"

There, I've included it for you. Not much reason for you to stick around now. Or perhaps you were saving your best ' til last ?

Peyia, hmm, good question. I'm not sure there are any, if we're considering issues based on how insidious they are. There are so many ways that censorship can be dressed up as perfectly reasonable.

100% in favour of that A level petition and would definitely sign, but it seems to have already succeeded. :) Did someone say feminism was unpopular?

Should read our voice!

Well out of 650 there are 191 women sitting in parliament. I don't care who helps their voice but the louder it is the better.

Change will and can happen with action. Don't give up!

If education is erasing female contributions throughout history THAT is government censorship seeing as government has a monopoly control over education.

It is odd I never seen any libertarians up in arms on this particular point only feminists...