Men and Non-men

I had considered voting Green in the upcoming local elections. Coming from Northern Ireland I wanted to find a party that fully supports equal marriage, changing the abortions laws and ant- drilling at our drinking water supplies.

Looks like this fiasco has whittled my vote to a new, small party.

Maybe we should start a Non-Misogynist party?

Now that's an umbrella term I can get behind ... I juts see the problem that many non-feminists would insist that they don't identify as misogynists and therefore should be allowed to join the party.

We are in dire need of a Non-Misogynist party, though. Sure.

The more I think about this the angrier I get. I don't want to be a non- man so I am anti choice? Fuck off

Ugh.

It really is awful othering. They have effectively stated that humans are made up of men (the default) and others who are exceptions to the default.

Interesting that they haven't even considered referring to men as non-women. Because that would be ridiculous, right? Perhaps because the world is run by non-poor non-black non-women.

The only time this has come up for me is at conference where it actually made sense because man after man raised their hands to speak and JJ who was chairing decided she wanted to encourage women to speak. I think someone in the wings advised her to ask 'people who don't identify as male' to put their hands up Wasn't really an issue at the time and the end result was a plenery much less male-dominated than it would have been. Yes, one or two transwomen spoke alongside the rest - good for them!

Are you talking about this instance, CherryPicking? How would male-presenting Simon speaking up when women were invited to speak be a wonderful example of the plenary becoming much less male-dominated that it would have been?

Bet they dont increase the quotas either - its just 'non men - shove up - theres more rejects to squish into your corner'

Yes i noticed that too. Frankly they can fuck right off.

Right. So it wasn't a mistake then. Bugger. Who will I vote for in a faute de mieux situation now?

Have you all seen the Green Party Women's "clarification" of the issue? I include it here, C&P's from their facebook page:

A recent issue, taken out of context of its intent, has arisen and caused quite a stir. As a result, the committee of Green Party Women would like to reassure our sisters that we by no means intend to erase women’s identities by forcing members to define relation to men. "Non-male" and "women" are not synonymous.

However, Green Party Women are happy with uses of the term “non-male" as an umbrella term when gender balance practices are conducted. This umbrella term groups together all who face gendered oppression; women, transgender women and individuals of non-binary or no genders. We all deserve to be recognised and included.

For too long, marginalised women have been excluded from most women's movements and circles. As a group we affirm that trans women are women, and that non-binary genders and other gender identities experience oppression and deserve respect. After all, we are part of a political party, The Green Party, which has a proud history of inclusivity.

We stand alongside our sister group, Young Greens Women, on the events that unfolded recently and apologise for any misunderstandings caused through incoherent statements on our part. We have since removed any posts that are not clear enough on this emotive issue, as some have left stances open to too much interpretation.

There will always be members who are anti-choice, anti-sex worker rights, disagree with terminology etc, as women are not a homogeneous group and occasionally members will disagree with each other. However, it is our duty to look out for and campaign with the most marginalised women in our society, and we would like to assure members that we remain committed to do so.

Green Party Women Committee

Spot the clunky and incredibly offensive attempt to conflate women don't want to be "non-men" with women who are anti-choice. How fucking dare they. It's the second-wavers, and the women who followed in their footsteps who are to thank for any of the fucking rights we still have to legal and safe abortions. Extra points for the Green Party Misogynist Wing Women for shoehorning in another opportunity to present women who support rights and safety for women in prostitution as "anti-sex-worker rights".

Fuckers. I will not trust them again, until they have thoroughly cleaned house of all the fucking misogynists who currently inhabit it.

Sure, the non-blue Party is not more sexist than other parties. It's just that I would have expected better from them.
If they really made an effort (as they claim) to not be sexist, then such wording would never turn up.

Its perhaps uniquely sexist for a mainstream political party to use the terms 'men' 'non men' (happy to be corrected on this) but i dont see the green party(ies) as being uniquely sexist. Society is sexist. I dont see that as a conspiracy theory either.

Has anyone from the Green Party apologised for the "non man" statement?

No, and the Green Party Women facebook page is presently backing it up. They also have main activists asserting that the Greens have no idea who local parties have standing as candidates. Which seems really odd and untrue

And for the record I do find the term 'non-men' problematic for at least two reasons, possibly more. Not happy about people assuming I don't and then putting out statements saying as much on my behalf, but I guess that's my beef (or quorn) and something I'll have to address.

Where I part company with many posters on this thread is that I don't see it as a conspiracy, and I don't see it as something uniquely sexist about the Greens - quite possibly these are awkward blunders resulting from attempts to address issues other parties haven't even thought about tackling yet. So its trial and error IMO.

But bombardier if you read my post again you'll see that I actually said a couple of transwomen spoke, amongst many women who were encouraged to speak too. They certainly didn't dominate the discussion themselves.

From my perspective, the trans women I've met have been different from men in their attitudes - generally strongly feminist, believers in sisterhood, quietly spoken. I don't pretend for a minute to understand their backgrounds or their experiences without listening to them as individuals, and I haven't met any who've pretended they understand what it was like for me growing up female.

The important thing for me is that we listen to one another as individuals and create policy based on the reality of those experiences. I have no desire to further marginalise a marginalised group, and I haven't met any trans women who would want to do the same to me, at least not intentionally.

And it is quite surprising that people on this thread would be so keen to slate a party when they admit they haven't heard of the leader, the deputy leader or the very high profile candidate for London mayor!

Ok 'ingrained sexism and male dominance' is exactly what i think too

Cant you see the irony that when 'non men' are asked to give an opinion, the ones socialised since birth and raised as males in a male dominated society are still the ones to speak?

Omg this makes me far more furious than the other 'non man' comment

Has anyone from the Green Party apologised for the "non man" statement?

Honestly??? I think that is disgusting - well and truly disgusting - to further silence women and then come up with patronising remarks like that. Just dont even bother. What tokenistic crap. We let the little women say a few words, bless them, the non men were given a voice

Why are you insulting me bombardier? I don't get your point at all. To dignify your question with a response I'd say ingrained sexism and male dominance within society as a whole. Certainly not a green party invention.

The English and welsh one. And it's not sniffy to correct a large error in an article! And yes one or two 'former men' spoke. The sky didn't fall. Women were heard.

Why do you think women contributed less? Is it their breasts that stop them? Perhaps concentrating on their make up makes it harder to think? I see the transmen got thrown under the bus again too though. Funny that.

And to call the women who have managed to fight their way to the top 'handmaidens' is really not a feminist position at all. You're basically saying 'it doesn't matter what you do, or what you accomplish, I can negate all that with a single word'. How does that empower women?