The city that allows women to sell sex

IGH That BBC article fits a tidy narrative.

I'm not convinced that it is representative. It's actually very exteme, and it's no wonder that woman feels the need to protect other women.

The women I have worked with throughout my involvement in the scene are ambitious. Driven. They want to do this. I am not convinced that all of them have been traumatized or abused. I shared my story, because I got into it so young, but it was absolutely a choice I made for myself. Other victims of CSA don't follow that path.

On the party scene I work with groups of women, the Brazilians, the Eastern Europeans, the African women, the Thais.... I can not for a second believe that every single one of these women have had bad traumatic abusive childhoods. I am confident that the reason they work is to escape poverty and send money home, and save up to buy a house back home.

The English girls I work with, I think VestalVirgin made a point that porn may influence such choices. This rings true. A few women have commented "Oh, I was doing porn before this but I want to make more money". They are strong, brilliant, independent, fantastic women. I love all of my girls. I try to help them in small ways.

MassiveStrumpet glad to hear life is treating you well. I agree with your point, the work is not upsetting exactly. I think there is something about the mindset that is different perhaps which makes it shocking to outsiders.

I've never said that it was glamorous. It's just my job. It simply doesn't bother me. I have never been abused or molested or raped or anything that might have made me this way. It's simply not a big deal to me.

I'm unable to say what is representative of most prostitutes in our culture. I do know quite a few others like me (similar attitudes and methods of working.)

I think the fact you don't fine it upsetting is actually very sad. I don;t mean to be offensive but I find this quite depressing and I also feel it is probably very unrepresentative of the experiences of prostitutes.

"When people describe prostitution as being something that is glamorous, elegant, like in the story of Pretty Woman, well that doesn't come close to it. A prostitute might sleep with five strangers a day. Across a year, that's more than 1,800 men she's having sexual intercourse or oral sex with. These are not relationships, no-one's bringing me any flowers here, trust me on that. They're using my body like a toilet.
And the johns - the clients - are violent. I've been shot five times, stabbed 13 times. I don't know why those men attacked me, all I know is that society made it comfortable for them to do so. They brought their anger or mental illness or whatever it was and they decided to wreak havoc on a prostitute, knowing I couldn't go to the police and if I did I wouldn't be taken seriously.
I actually count myself very lucky. I knew some beautiful girls who were murdered out there on the streets."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33113238

This won't be every prostitutes experience, but you won't know when you start whether it will be yours or not.

I would happily do it myself if I were a bit younger. It's honestly not something we find upsetting.

It's not horrifying for the girls I know who work there. It's what they want to do. Of course, I only know girls who work or have worked because they wanted to.

"They're just going to knock out 15 bookings in a shift at 40 a go and they'll go home happy."

This is the most horrifying sentence I have ever read on Mumsnet.

I'm a bog-standard, run-of-the-mill independent who advertises on Adultwork and similar sites. I charge 120 an hour in my home city and 150 an hour when I tour to places like London. Half an hour is 80 or 100. In my home city, I will see about two or three clients a day and make 1000-1500 a week. On tour I can make as much as 4000. After paying overheads and taxes (on most of my income) I am able to support a family of five.

I am not high-class or anything of the sort. I'm not young and beautiful and the services I offer are fairly vanilla. But what I do have going for me is that I am able to rent a flat to work from and otherwise manage things for myself. I can afford to be picky and I will turn away men just because I don't like the sound of their voice or whatever.

There are other girls who are not able to do those things for a variety of reasons. Some girls work in parlours because they just want to show up for a day and make a wad of cash and go home for a week and not think about it any more. They're happy to take less cash in their hands because they'll still walk out with hundreds of pounds - I know girls who do this and they're not all vulnerable weaklings or anything like that. They're just going to knock out 15 bookings in a shift at 40 a go and they'll go home happy.

There are, of course, girls in more vulnerable positions. I don't know how many of us "happy hookers" there are.

Earnings are all over the place, that would seem to be the nature of that line of 'work'. As a way of making money in London, digging down into information, it ranges from street prostitution and cheap illegal transitory brothels, made up of drug addicts and eastern european women, then on through legal established higher end brothels and escort services in the middle range, then on to ultra expensive services provided by social media and back-list celebrities to wealthy clients, particularly where Russians and Arabs congregate because they represent a wealthy group far more likely to purchase sex services.

I think one point is also that it must be hard to get out or get into something different. What do you say you were doing for 5 or 10 years work wise etc?

I wonder for girls wanting to get out of the 'sex trade' what is on offer?

I see Ophelia's post about potential earnings has been deleted. What struck me is the figures weren't that high.

The lobbyists for prostitution being just another job frequently compare it to being better than working in a supermarket or Macdonalds.

What struck me from the figures Ophelia quoted was they depended on being fully employed in your "shift". There's no guarantee of that which makes what were not particularly astonishing figures in the first place less attractive.

Thanks so much for sharing 0phelia.

My impression is exactly what you have explained. It's easy money for some. I believe that can be seen as attractive to many. I'm not condoning it but accept some actually choose it willingly.

I'm sorry about your childhood. My mum is a victim and its affected her entire life.

To get through the day, the full-timers, they're given these strong prescription pain killers that give the eyes that Dilated (sexy) look. They are highly addictive.

Interesting. I would have thought the use of illegal drugs was more frequent, but it makes sense that a brothel-owner would want to keep a tidy facade, which doesn't work so neatly with alcohol and other mind-altering drugs.

I was thinking first and foremost of the psychological damage, which would also affect those who have only one "customer" a day ... but I suppose this part is already dealt with long before a girl enters prostitution. (There are theories that those women who "choose" prostitution were victimized by child rapists beforehand, but nowadays, porn might play a role in the separation of girls' minds from their bodies. I have read reports of girls who experienced sex as trying to reenact porn, to look sexy, without any sense of joy ...)

Simply telling people that there's a lot of money to be made ... will not really tempt anyone who wasn't influenced by other factors.

I know it is certainly not promoting it. There would not be enough money to entice some into this world, but for others, maybe it is different.

Ophelia, your post does not look like it is promoting the sex industry

Far from it

"Should I get that post deleted? Don't even know why I put it." I think so. but whether Mumsnet will or not is up to them....

OH NOO And now it looks like I'm promoting The sex trade, like "Look how much ££ you can make!

Don't worry ... it doesn't look in the least attractive to me, money or not.

I am sure that, if at all, only very few women can do this sort of thing without taking severe psychological damage in the long run.

In a way, it is like selling a kidney. You have more money, yes, but you also have to cope with numerous complications and there is no predicting how expensive that will be.

Ophelia I think your post is fine. I had no idea of the sort of money involved.

Oh thanks Lasswith for explaining the legalities...

OH NOO And now it looks like I'm promoting The sex trade, like "Look how much ££ you can make!

Really, honestly it's not like that. You have to be prepared to shag 10 strangers a day or whatever. How irresponsible.

Should I get that post deleted? Don't even know why I put it.

The UK position, excluding Northern Ireland, is that buying or selling sex is legal.

It is illegal for women to solicit in public and for punters to kerb crawl or attempt to solicit women.

It is illegal to run a brothel. The latter , as the pro prostitution lobby will tell you, means 2 prostitutes sharing a flat , or one with a maid/minder is illegal (and you are just a narrow minded nimby who only cares about property prices if you object to sharing a common stair with a brothel)

It is illegal to live off the earnings of prostitution- i e to be a pimp (the pro lobby will tell you this penalises any prostitute who employs a minder or whose partner is a minder or who shares his partner's earnings)

So basically if the transaction takes place entirely in private and no one benefits financially except the prostitute, it is legal.

Northern Ireland has opted for the Nordic model.

And sorry one-to-ones was meant to say £100 per job, not per day.

Sorry that was longer than I meant it to be.

Yes, selling and buying sex are not illegal in the UK but kerb crawling, soliciting, running a brothel and paying for a trafficked woman are illegal in the UK. So a bit complex, difficult to enforce and causes various problems.

Your right the large sums of money point is not usual but it's something I have come across on the scene. These groups of girls who are using the party days (we get paid flat-rate per party) to meet clients for one-to-ones at £100++ per day, and also working 12hr shifts in flats and and working almost all day every day.

Pay structures I have come across include
Sauna/Massage client pays £45 on entry WG takes £22.50 per job
Sauna/Massage client pays £60 on entry WG takes £20 for 1st job £40 for 2nd job and £50 for all other jobs that shift.
Escort Agency client pays £100 per hour WG takes £50 per hour
And £40 - £60 per job in flats.
Indie Escorting I have never done but in London it's usually £100 an hour.

Not "eyewatering" amounts for sure and you have to be busy to earn the money.

The £10 per job business is grim. Street workers are known for those sorts of charges. But... To a Romanian in poverty, to imagine earning €10 a job and give half over to trafficker, if they are told they will be busy and taking home €50 a day and a place to live, it's probably Jackpot compared to their own currency and options in their home country.

Thanks for sharing Ophilia.

You mentioned large sums of money but I do wonder about the women who end up working in legalized prostitution where the price is incredibly low. Someone mentioned 10 Euros for full sex, I think, up thread. This was in Germany. Presumably as women get older their 'value' to Johns will go down so for some the future could look bleak.

I was really pleased to see you explain how the Nordic model was good for prostitutes, I am sure that if more had things explained in this way more would be arguing for this option. Do you agree or are many prostitutes very much set on legalizing prostitution.

I;ve never really understood but it appears it is not illegal to sell sex in the UK, but many other things associated with prostitution are. Is that right?