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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Very sad article about porn and how it affects relationships for young women

181 replies

Italiangreyhound · 07/04/2016 22:37

Interesting and deeply saddening article about porn and how it affects relationships for young women.

fightthenewdrug.org/sex-before-kissing-15-year-old-girls-dealing-with-boys/

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 08/04/2016 17:33

linky

AnyFucker · 08/04/2016 17:27

I am not sure my username will be any better received in chat on this subject but I will have a go now I am on my pc

booklooker · 08/04/2016 17:23

Bertrand, I do not always agree with you But surely you have the respect of others.

And your name will encourage others to open and comment

BertrandRussell · 08/04/2016 17:20

Please can someone who isn't me or anyone else who posts a lot about porn and feminism start a thread about this in "Chat"?

booklooker · 08/04/2016 17:16

Porn can be damaging. It's about time we started acknowledging that, rather than sweeping it under the rug because 'every man does it'.

This is why the discussion needs to be in Chat

imwithspud · 08/04/2016 17:13

Whoops, not sure what happened witht he bolding there.

imwithspud · 08/04/2016 17:12

*Education, education,education.

Stop denying it's a problem

Stop saying"all men look at porn , you're in denial if you think they don't"

Stop being "cool girl" about it.

Talk about real sex properly. To boys and girls.

Tell kids about how porn is made.

Stop telling girls that they are "empowered" by getting their tits out.

Stop calling feminists humorless man haters when they talk about this stuff.

Bring up our girls to believe that they can say "no" to men. And our boys to understand that that's OK. And not that no means yes and yes means anal.*

This with bells on.

Porn can be damaging. It's about time we started acknowledging that, rather than sweeping it under the rug because 'every man does it'.

booklooker · 08/04/2016 16:40

yy to Mud

I remember a girl telling me to kiss her feet before I was allowed to kiss her face.

I duly obliged.

mudandmayhem01 · 08/04/2016 15:27

What's happened to teenage boys, when I was a teenager, boys were so excited at the thought of having sex with a real human girl they used to virtually worship me. Any sex at all is so novel as a teenager, there is no need for all the non vanilla stuff that older consenting adults might use to spice up their relationships. Sadly I know the answer to this, porn has happened.

scallopsrgreat · 08/04/2016 15:27

Agreed RiverTam. Its almost the opposite talk for boys. Disempowering them so to speak:

No you are not entitled to sex - Sex is not a need or a right
No your wants do not come above the wants of your partner
Women and girls have feelings and they matter
Sex is a collaboration not something you do to someone. Nor is it a trade.
Your partner may not like what you like - and that's OK
Coercing someone into sexual acts is abusive

I think these conversations are way more important than conversations with girls. We aren't going to change the dynamic until male entitlement and violence is addressed. That's the cause of the problem, not girl's reaction to that.

RiverTam · 08/04/2016 15:15

I agree with what Bertrand said but far more conversations need to happen between parents and sons. So much if what I read deals with empowering girls, which is obviously good, but ultimately pointless if parents aren't having similar conversations with boys.

grimbletart · 08/04/2016 15:10

This didn't make me sad. It made me very angry. For years many of us have been saying how harmful porn is, how it degrades women (and men too TBH), how it can lead unstable individuals to commit violent offences. All the time the right-on "experts" and "cool brigade" have been telling us to stop pearl clutching and there is no evidence blah, bloody blah. And all the time the evidence is before their eyes. They just refuse to see it. How long are they going to dismiss evidence like that survey as "anecdotal"?

The single most important thing we can teach our daughters is that they are human beings, not put on earth to service those slaggy boys (NABALT) who feel entitled to get their rocks off by using females as meat.

The sentence that made me the most angry was the one from a girl who said how can she refuse "without hurting his feelings". Poor little male lamb. Why the hell does she have to worry about the feelings of every porn-fed male? Boyfriends are nice (the right ones) but they are not necessary and those sort are distinctly unnecessary.

I know the pressures are to do extreme stuff are worse now. I understand. But, in context and of its time, pressures were always there. The difference is that my generation of second wave feminists (which included most of my friends) did not hesitate to choose whether they wanted to do stuff or not. And if they didn't - "fuck off" was the appropriate response and it was used - frequently. And if that resulted in being accused of being frigid or a prude, so what? We simply didn't care. Even as teenagers we had learned the world does not turn just because adolescent boys says it does.

Sorry, that's a rant. But, I feel so let down by these porn-using males and TBH I feel just as let down by girls who worry about hurting boys' feelings. Angry

AnyFucker · 08/04/2016 15:04

Yy Bertrand

Lottapianos · 08/04/2016 14:43

Everything BertrandRussell just said. Compulsory sex and relationships education, at an age appropriate level, covering all of these issues at an appropriate time, from Year 1, throughout school. Absolutely no exceptions.

BertrandRussell · 08/04/2016 14:34

For starters.

And when I say "you" I obviously mean generic us. Not you. Grin

BertrandRussell · 08/04/2016 14:32

Education, education,education.

Stop denying it's a problem

Stop saying"all men look at porn , you're in denial if you think they don't"

Stop being "cool girl" about it.

Talk about real sex properly. To boys and girls.

Tell kids about how porn is made.

Stop telling girls that they are "empowered" by getting their tits out.

Stop calling feminists humorless man haters when they talk about this stuff.

Bring up our girls to believe that they can say "no" to men. And our boys to understand that that's OK. And not that no means yes and yes means anal.

scandichick · 08/04/2016 14:17

So how do you tackle this at the source? I don't see the availability of porn changing soon, so the only thing I can see that would make a difference is limiting how much porn teenage boys consume, and educate them on the difference between porn and reality. What else can you do?

BertrandRussell · 08/04/2016 14:09

Oops- cross post.

BertrandRussell · 08/04/2016 14:08

Italiangreyhound- please could you post this in "chat"? It's worthy of a wider audience.......

AnyFucker · 08/04/2016 14:05

Yep, could this be reposted in other topics

You are preaching to the converted in here

booklooker · 08/04/2016 14:02

I have sent a link to this article to the SMT of my school (not in the UK) to ask if we are doing enough, even if we are aware of what is happening.

It really is very sad. We have two DDs of the same age as the girls refered to in the item. I think they are safe, but can I really be sure.

I think this should be in 'Chat'

flowilliamson · 08/04/2016 12:19

This is honestly so sad. I hate to think that there are girls out there who don't think themselves worthy if a boy doesn't want sex or that they see it as something they just get out of the way.

Honestly, so sad that this is the world girls have to live in now.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 08/04/2016 12:10

I've not had as extreme experiences as depend but one thing that I've noticed is that some men don't seem to view sex as a mutually enjoyable experience - it's a performance that gets their end away, rather than enjoying giving the other person pleasure as well.

I'm not sure whether that's a new thing, or whether it's been worsened by porn (I imagine it has) but thankfully I've been assertive enough to tell these guys to get to feck - I can't imagine girls experimenting sexually for the first time will be.

imwithspud · 08/04/2016 11:44

So depressing. I have two dd's. They're very young so this sort of talk is a long way off yet, but I dread what the 'porn culture' will be like by the time they're teenagers. I plan to educate and be as open as possible, but ultimately I feel powerless.

mudandmayhem01 · 08/04/2016 11:41

Your post makes me so glad I am 20 years older than you. My experiences of sexual experimentation as a young woman varied from the amazing to crap, drunken fumbles but I never experienced any of those things.