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Original poster

Very sad article about porn and how it affects relationships for young women

181 replies

Italiangreyhound · 07/04/2016 22:37

Interesting and deeply saddening article about porn and how it affects relationships for young women.

fightthenewdrug.org/sex-before-kissing-15-year-old-girls-dealing-with-boys/

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Original poster
Italiangreyhound · 10/04/2016 13:20

You can read more here
www.plan.org.au/learn/who-we-are/blog/2016/03/02/dont-send-me-that-pic

I;ve not downloaded the report but there is a link to it there to do so.

I wonder if any suitable reports and surveys have been done in the UK. I found the BMJ one, frankly, wimpy!

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Original poster
Italiangreyhound · 10/04/2016 12:08

Bryt we are not powerless, and well done for writing to you MP. I did not hear about that bill, can you say more. Who started it, has it happened, what happened, can you update us and link to any articles and also to any petitions about this.

We need to start sharing resources ad stop saying that there is nothing we can do. We elect MPs, we pay taxes, or we are part of families that do, we raise kids, or we are in touch with those who do; we can all do something - really we can do something!

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Bryt · 10/04/2016 10:48

I saw this article a week or so ago and the issues it raises have not left my mind since. I wrote twice to my MP to support the bill for compulsory relationship and sex education and he was not interested in addressing my concerns. I was really saddened how little media coverage the proposed bill got. I think so few people give a shit about it because they think sexual relationships between teenage boys and girls are the same as they have always been - the way things were when they were at school in the 70s/80s/90s and don't see it as a big deal. I don't know what else to do, but I feel powerless as an individual. It seems to me that this should be the sort of thing a Mumsnet campaign backs.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/04/2016 23:18

scallops I was referring to the thread in AIBU which Lilac mentioned on page 4 of this threadcand referred to the fact posters were using those terms.

I suggest you read that thread and give the posters there who used those terms about little girls the (unnecessary) telling off you have just given me.

Original poster
Italiangreyhound · 09/04/2016 22:52

Yes scallopsrgreat we are on same page Smile. 100% it is more the responsibility of the boys if they are pushing for unsafe/unconcesual sex etc. But I also personally want girls involved in the conversations and aware, but I do think we are on same page and sorry for my confusion about an earlier comment! Blush

My kids duck face to mean they are angry! Anyone who calls an 11 year old slutty is an A-hole surely!

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scallopsrgreat · 09/04/2016 22:25

Ignore me Italian. I've reread what you said! Yes I think we are on the same page Smile.

scallopsrgreat · 09/04/2016 22:17

I'm not sure we are saying the same thing Italian. I feel you are saying equal emphasis on teaching boys and girls. I'm saying more emphasis on teaching boys. They should be the priority. That doesn't mean to say girls should or need to be passive in this. They can most certainly be involved in that - and should be.

"Idiotic/why would you do that/ bleh/ugh were what sprung to mind, but not tarty or slutty." That sentence seems to imply an 11 yr could be 'tarty' or 'slutty', just not in this instance. Really hoping that's not what you meant.

I don't think any woman is tarty or slutty. Those are words used to classify women according to behaviours which are deemed acceptable or otherwise by men/a patriarchal society.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/04/2016 20:14

Yes Helena I had to Google it.

Idiotic/why would you do that/ bleh/ugh were what sprung to mind, but not tarty or slutty.

HelenaDove · 09/04/2016 19:22

Oh my good God!

LilacSpunkMonkey · 09/04/2016 18:48

The OP was saying she'd deleted some pics from her daughter's Instagram account because her daughter was pouting (duckfacing) in them. Towards the end a real charmer turned up and started spouting about controlling your children and children having respect then went on to say some 11 year old look 'tarty' in their Instagram photos. Someone aged with her with a Grin and, when challenged, the first poster said she used 'tarty' to be polite but she actually meant 'slutty'.

And this is grown women talking about children. I reported both posts and was told they didn't break talk guidelines! So that's HQ allowing sexualised talk about young girls. Really inspires confidence, doesn't it?

HelenaDove · 09/04/2016 18:43

I know what a selfie is but what does duckface mean in this context.

Im obvs a bit out of touch here.

LilacSpunkMonkey · 09/04/2016 16:23

Meanwhile, over on AIBU, there'a a thread about an 11 year old girl on Instagram posting duckface selfies.

Towards the end if the thread there are posters referring it as 'tarty' and 'slutty'.

These are the people who need educating as much as the children. The type who think Adam Johnson's victim 'knew what she was doing'.

Original poster
Italiangreyhound · 09/04/2016 15:37

RiverTam yes, I agree, have found Scallopsgreat original comments and I do agree, I think I just took part of it out of context. Blush

I just want to see both boys and girls involved but absolutely do not want to victim blame or lay the onus on the girls at all. So agree. Smile

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Original poster
Italiangreyhound · 09/04/2016 15:33

Scallopsgrea re your other comment "I think these conversations are way more important than conversations with girls. We aren't going to change the dynamic until male entitlement and violence is addressed. That's the cause of the problem, not girl's reaction to that." YES I totally agree with you on that. I think we are saying very similar things I just picked up on your comment, wrongly, so apologies.

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Original poster
Italiangreyhound · 09/04/2016 15:31

OK, found it... scallopsrgreat re "I think these conversations are way more important than conversations with girls." I think we need to talk to both girls and boys, to encourage them to think for themselves and to find their voice for good. Girls can't just be put aside and looked after', they need to be active in making the changes in our society, IMHO.??

I simply meant that I think boys and girls need to be involved. Yes, if boys are the 'aggressor' we need to get them away from girls and this could take time and while it happens, while men are taught to not see women as meat, we need to prepare girls to also not see themselves as meat, IMHO.

I just don't think we can afford the time to talk to boys and try and get them to see reason without equipping girls - we need to tell them "Hey this doesn't mean he loves or likes you, cares or respects you, he is acting on impulses that have been damaged by porn. And damaged people do damage, so get away and make it clear this is not your thing."

I think if this happened enough boys would be forced to re-think BUT I absolutely do not want to put the onus on girls to be again the rescuers of the situation. Men have created this situation, greedy porn makers, they need to see their business go down the toilet by whatever means possible.

But you are entitled to any view and I am sorry if I stepped on your point.

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RiverTam · 09/04/2016 15:26

Agree with scallops, there needs to be more of a push this sorted with boys and their parents. 90% of parents on these threads talk about how worried they are for their DDs. Where's the concern for DSs? They are potentially going to end up as horrific sex pests at best. All conversations regarding sexism need to involve boys, there's not much point in trying to 'empower' girls if boys' behaviour continues as it is. Because that's a slippery slope to victim blaming, that the girls haven't done enough to deal with the boys if all the onus is on girls to respond well to a situation that is caused by boys' bad behaviour and attitudes.

Original poster
Italiangreyhound · 09/04/2016 15:24

LassWiTheDelicateAir re "I hate the way being anti- porn is turned into being anti- sex. I suppose it's unfortunate that some organised groups who are anti- porn are also anti-sex that isn't between a married heterosexual couple." I think this is red herring, you can be against one thing and for another, if one group is campaigning for something you don't approve of then you don't need to join them.

Please, anyone, are there any good campaigning groups against porn?

Any links, please?

scallopsrgreat re "I never said that girls shouldn't be active in these conversations, Italian. I also didn't say that we shouldn't have conversations with girls. But the problem is not with the girls behaviour. The problem is with boys behaviour. That's why the conversations with them are more important." I am not sure what this refers to. I am sorry if something I said did not reflect what you said, that was not my intention. I posted a lot last night and felt very emotional so i do apologise if I misrepresented you. Smile

Re "It's just that on the these threads the default stance is always we need to talk to girls to recognise the signs, not give into pressure; build their self esteem. The default is rarely, if ever, about needing to talk to boys to stop putting on the pressure, treat girls as fellow humans and lose their sense of entitlement."

I think I must have misunderstood you somewhere because I totally agree with you, I think it is both men and women, boys and girls who need to know how to handle this stuff. I don;t think it is only a problem for one 'side'. I will look back and try and see what it was I said...

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scallopsrgreat · 09/04/2016 14:16

It's just that on the these threads the default stance is always we need to talk to girls to recognise the signs, not give into pressure; build their self esteem. The default is rarely, if ever, about needing to talk to boys to stop putting on the pressure, treat girls as fellow humans and lose their sense of entitlement.

scallopsrgreat · 09/04/2016 14:05

I never said that girls shouldn't be active in these conversations, Italian. I also didn't say that we shouldn't have conversations with girls. But the problem is not with the girls behaviour. The problem is with boys behaviour. That's why the conversations with them are more important.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/04/2016 13:57

I hate the way being anti- porn is turned into being anti- sex. I suppose it's unfortunate that some organised groups who are anti- porn are also anti-sex that isn't between a married heterosexual couple.

AnyFucker · 09/04/2016 09:16

Some great links there, IG

Original poster
Italiangreyhound · 09/04/2016 04:11

LassWiTheDelicateAir re "I'm not sure if those videos really address the issue. They are all about creepy older men pretending to be something they are not. Isn't this probem more about boys girls already know in real life?"

yes, sorry I got carried away, was looking for the sexting ones and ended up including them all, it is a different issue BUT I do think sexiting is part of it - exposing ones self for someone else's benefit.

I am really not sure what reaources are out there specifically about porn but someone mentioned Childline so I found these, I've not used these resources yet but just looked them up....

www.childline.org.uk/explore/onlinesafety/pages/online-porn.aspx

The following page is for young people aged 12 and over. Some of the language and types of things explained are not appropriate for younger children.

www.childline.org.uk/explore/onlinesafety/pages/fapz-fight-against-porn-zombies.aspx

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/04/2016 04:04

I'm not sure if those videos really address the issue. They are all about creepy older men pretending to be something they are not. Isn't this probem more about boys girls already know in real life?

I'm not sure if the one had which had the advice about privacy settings and only making photographs available to people you know is that helpful either. People you know does not mean people you can trust implicitly for ever.

I don't do social media at all (apart from a bare bones LinkedIn account work says I must have) so might not have got the hang of it but I'm not sure "keep your settings for privacy" is the right answer.

I would have thought don't post any post any pictures which are not of a nature where you can't shrug your shoulders and laugh if seen by the wrong person.

GraysAnalogy · 09/04/2016 03:17

This always makes me feel old.

We had the same porn knocking about when I was younger (10 years ago). I had sex at aged 15. Yeah some lads would test the boundaries but it was always something they fantasised and hoped for not expected.

Theydontknowweknowtheyknow · 09/04/2016 03:15

I think it feels like girls are so dependent on boys because romantic relationships are presented as the be all and end all - on telly, or in music videos, or when we read a romance novel. That is why, it is all conditioning.

I really agree with this Italian. Action movies aimed at boys are primarily about adventure and the romance is incidental. Romantic movies aimed at girls are primarily about finding love, so placing a boy at the centre of it.