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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I hope this wasn't a stupid thing to do!

141 replies

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 10:48

I've just impulsively done something which I'm now having a bit of a wibble about.

Had an email round all the regional offices of my firm this morning, from the Regional Chairman, to let us know about some recent promotions to partner. As usual they were both men, and for some reason I was moved to send the following reply (only to him, not everyone!)

Hi X,

Congratulations to Y and Z.

I may be wrong, but (from a glance at the public web pages for each office) I think the new promotions will make 24 male partners in the region to one female. I’d be so pleased if that ratio improved in the future; I’m sure there can’t be such a lack of talented senior women in the firm.

Apologies if that sounds impertinent; I don’t mean to be – it’s just that the discrepancy struck me quite forcibly.

Kind regards,
CaptainWentworth

Have I just made a complete wally of myself/ labelled myself as a troublemaker? I'm a pretty junior minion around these parts so it's not like he will have any idea who I am- but he's prob thinking wtf! Blush

OP posts:
CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 11:27

No, I know you didn't mean to name call Lizzie - I shouldn't be so PA! I've struggled massively with my confidence over the years- and have loads of baggage around my dad always telling me I was over emotional and illogical- so I get too defensive about criticism.

Thank you for all the great discussion - I will certainly think about it all and come up with a reasoned view on things, if I'm asked, but I really don't expect a response- I never did!

OP posts:
Lanark2 · 04/04/2016 11:27

When I thought this was sent to all, I thought 'oops' I am in a company that would hear this sort of thing occasionally, and politely put it wouldn't be too weird( mind you if anything the balance is the other way)

Said direct I don't think it's that bad. A paranoid control freak might gip, but a good boss would find this OK. As you say, a good p.a. will manage this appropriately.

One thing is true, by sending this, you have tested the water and moved from being a drone, to an influencer. They might not like it, but that bit is up to them. You will still have put it in their mind to keep an eye on reputational impact, which a person deserving the top table should do.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 04/04/2016 11:26

I think your email is fine too.

In my current workplace, until recently, all of our highest-level people were male. My colleague is a fairly junior female, but she had initiated a bigger project related to gender and achievement, and she did bring up this point to those people, especially when a promotion was being considered. I've not heard anyone who thought it was inappropriate for her to do that, and actually she got a lot of support.

PalmerViolet · 04/04/2016 11:26

And you're not the one being a dick Captain either.

EDisFunny · 04/04/2016 11:24

And any firm worth their salt promote an atmosphere of speak up/speak out; you did a fine thing, OP.

PerspicaciaTick · 04/04/2016 11:24

But the OP can't look into the future and predict who may or may not get a future unannounced promotion. It doesn't make her look like a dick if future promotions are women - it just gives X the chance to reply "all is fine".

hesterton · 04/04/2016 11:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PalmerViolet · 04/04/2016 11:24

Never ceases to amaze me the assumption that for some reason, women just don't make the grade and that positive discrimination means that those women who are promoted because of it must therefore be less deserving candidates than any men that got passed over. The belief that, because there's a majority of men on boards, in parliament, in senior management of female dominated industries, men are just naturally the better choice is pervasive.

If you follow it through, it must also mean that men who attended a small number of public schools, so men whose families were rich, are naturally better than men whose families couldn't afford that, so a return to the old system of aristocracy by another name.

Captain your email was fine, polite and succinct. Hopefully, it will make someone think about the issue in future.

EDisFunny · 04/04/2016 11:23

I think your email is fine. Any of the professional service firms are working on gender equality and generally have networks set up to support women into higher roles.

SeraOfeliaFalfurrias · 04/04/2016 11:22

You are not a dick, Captain! You politely and concisely pointed out something that needed pointing. If the boss responds negatively, he's the dick! And as for all the posters saying that we little minions should just shut up, put up and never raise any issues within our companies, well, then they've won, haven't they? How will anything ever change?

hesterton · 04/04/2016 11:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LizzieMacQueen · 04/04/2016 11:21

Sorry didn't mean to name-call, just the act of calling him out on the perceived discrimination was a little bit silly if women were promoted on the back of it.

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 11:19

Yes. And I suppose I must be a dick. No one's ever called me anything like that before.

OP posts:
SeraOfeliaFalfurrias · 04/04/2016 11:17

Erm, so you can be patronising to the OP but I can't point out the scientifically researched flaws in your logic? And what has what you do for a living got to do with anything?

LizzieMacQueen · 04/04/2016 11:17

I wonder who will get promoted into the vacant positions left by these newly promoted partners. If women then you will look a little dick-ish.

Was it an accountancy firm?

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 11:16

And I'm not expecting any kind of discussion! Not sure what I expected really - I just had a visceral reaction I suppose Blush. Daft of me.

OP posts:
PerspicaciaTick · 04/04/2016 11:15

No - what he needs to look is look at his organisation and find the point at which there are roughly equal numbers of men and women. Then he needs to identify why the men move up to the next level but the women don't. Maybe it is because all the women are a bit crap. In which case, fine - although he may want to consider why his company recruits crappy women candidates and capable men.

FiveSixPickUpSticks · 04/04/2016 11:15

No need to be so patronising Sera You have no idea as to what it is I do for a living.

SeraOfeliaFalfurrias · 04/04/2016 11:13

If you do a little research, FiveSixPickUpSticks, it has been shown that when presented with otherwise identical CVs, most recruitment panels will consider that the one with the male name at the top is the better-qualified, due to nothing less than unconscious bias. So it is simple fact that women do not get an equal chance of promotion based on skills - men are at an advantage. So if employers are put in conscience mind that more women should be getting promotions, there is a higher chance that this imbalance might be addressed.

Floggingmolly · 04/04/2016 11:13

Of course op suggested the promotions weren't based on merit Confused
I'm sure there can't be such a lack of talented senior women in the firm suggests that said women were overlooked because they're... women.
I seriously doubt the big boss will "open up a discussion" with a self proclaimed junior minion on the subject either Hmm

WomanWithAltitude · 04/04/2016 11:11

Of course she isn't. There is a host of evidence that the barriers to women (and other groups) gaining senior positions go way beyond 'merit' and most people, particularly those intelligent enough to be that senior, are aware of that.

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 11:11

FiveSix you're putting words in my mouth- all I wanted to do was to point out the ratio.

Maybe women aren't applying for promotions; maybe they don't feel able to ask for the additional experience that would make them the best qualified person for the job? (for example)

OP posts:
MatildaBeetham · 04/04/2016 11:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MatildaBeetham · 04/04/2016 11:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SeraOfeliaFalfurrias · 04/04/2016 11:09

I think it's fantastic that you did it. It was polite and raised a valid point. So if anyone higher-up takes issue, it would speak volumes as to the actual attitude of higher management regarding equality. These things needs to be flagged loudly and often! Well done you!

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