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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I hope this wasn't a stupid thing to do!

141 replies

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 10:48

I've just impulsively done something which I'm now having a bit of a wibble about.

Had an email round all the regional offices of my firm this morning, from the Regional Chairman, to let us know about some recent promotions to partner. As usual they were both men, and for some reason I was moved to send the following reply (only to him, not everyone!)

Hi X,

Congratulations to Y and Z.

I may be wrong, but (from a glance at the public web pages for each office) I think the new promotions will make 24 male partners in the region to one female. I’d be so pleased if that ratio improved in the future; I’m sure there can’t be such a lack of talented senior women in the firm.

Apologies if that sounds impertinent; I don’t mean to be – it’s just that the discrepancy struck me quite forcibly.

Kind regards,
CaptainWentworth

Have I just made a complete wally of myself/ labelled myself as a troublemaker? I'm a pretty junior minion around these parts so it's not like he will have any idea who I am- but he's prob thinking wtf! Blush

OP posts:
sixinabed · 04/04/2016 21:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EBearhug · 04/04/2016 21:25

I wrote a long reply at lunchtime, and then my phone lost signal and refused to send it, so I shall try and remember what I said...

It would be fine to send a mail like that at our company. They do like trying to work out what people at all ranks are thinking - not that they always listen, but they like to have some idea! I have sent a similar mail myself in the past, and ended up having a long chat with the head of HR, (I mean, it really was a chat, not a warning or anything,) things like pay and flexible working, training, all sorts - but particularly lack of promotions and movement.

And it does matter. I recently refused to go forward for a job with another company because they had only one woman on the board and none among the senior managers. Companies should be looking at why they're not promoting women. If they think they haven't any competent women, is there a problem with their recruiting techniques? Or do they not support women well enough, not give them the same opportunities men get? This is often the case, with unconscious bias playing a big part. Should they be changing their practices and so on to make things fairer for women? What are they doing about things like the pay gap? What are their policies on parental leave, on flexible working? Do they make an effort to ease people back into work after parental leave, or do they expect people to get on with it with no real support? Pretty much every company could do better on most of these things, but some companies need to do a lot more than others - and it all starts with people noticing and asking questions.

BayLeaves · 04/04/2016 21:23

Agreed - where I work emails starting with "Dear..." are either automated emails or aggressively formal.

Well done for providing honest feedback. I wish more women would speak out in solidarity with regards to this sort of thing. My leader outright disagreed with me recently when I suggested that women should support eachother as we have it harder than men in our male dominated field!

FloraFox · 04/04/2016 21:14

Well done Capt look forward to hearing his reply.

slugseatlettuce · 04/04/2016 20:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NeverEverAnythingEver · 04/04/2016 20:31

"Everyone starts emails with 'Hi' here."

Us too! To everyone wherever they are in the hierarchy.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 04/04/2016 19:48

Well done Captain, you've stuck your head above the parapet but some buggers gotta.

24 men and 1 woman is ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

Nandocushion · 04/04/2016 19:45

I say well done too. And well worded.

ApocalypseSlough · 04/04/2016 19:40

Good for you Captain

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 19:33

This wasn't to the managing partner.

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 04/04/2016 19:24

What is "constructive" about not pointing out how it might be perceived? OP asked for feedback.

If I were the recipient of it , and I am a partner in a large law firm, I would find the tone flippant. Maybe the recipient won't. I don't honestly know what the managing partner in my own firm would make of it.

Kelandry · 04/04/2016 19:24

Well, it's done....but now you have a bit of a wobble, so if they do get a bit hurumphy over it, say you felt that lots of companies have been blasted on social media for claiming to be equal rights and then photos of the all male board members and you felt like the ratio needed pointing out. Just shrug it off if they press you, say you thought it needed highlighting but of course it's their perogative to maintain the status quo if that's their wish.

LyndaNotLinda · 04/04/2016 19:19

Good for you CaptainWentworth. I think that was a hugely shrewd move on your part. If you're in a big firm, it's the sort of thing that marks you out as a person of interest, unafraid to venture an opinion. If your senior partner is clever, he'll invite you to be a part of a working group to look at ways of combatting to paucity of female partners.

MatildaBeetham · 04/04/2016 19:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FreshwaterSelkie · 04/04/2016 18:59

Good for you, Captain W! It was a brave move.

I think either way you gain something valuable. If the Chairman is someone who's able to reflect on feedback, regardless of its source, and he responds positively, then that's a win for you. If he doesn't, then he's marked your card about the company's ethos and your chances of progressing anywhere in it, and you now have that information to factor into your own career choices.

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 18:53

Everyone starts emails with 'Hi' here.

I didn't want to make it about me- and anyone internal can easily tell from my signature exactly where my position is in the firm and what I do all day.

No doubt it could have been worded better, but as I'm still in the office and haven't had a response I think I might still have a job tomorrow, at least.

And I am that person who can't resist saying something when everyone else is sitting in uncomfortable silence after a presentation or whatever...

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 04/04/2016 18:46

Sorry, but if you really did start your email with "Hi" that is not a very professional approach.

I don't think your email will do you any harm personally but if , you are indeed a junior minion he won't know from Eve, the tone is a bit flippant.

You could have started it as "Dear x" and perhaps briefly introduced yourself.

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 18:46

Oh and I don't particularly want to out myself! Thanks for the support, those who have given it- made me feel a lot better.

That's not to say I don't appreciate being challenged too.

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NeverEverAnythingEver · 04/04/2016 18:45

Have not read full thread but well done captain for raising the point. I wish more people would.

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 18:43

Well I feel like a junior minion because I'm just not very confident- it's something I'm working on- and because I was trying to sound light hearted (that was a bad idea I think!)

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OublietteBravo · 04/04/2016 18:42

Well done for raising the point - I hope it proves to be a catalyst for change.

I bet there are several of your colleagues thinking exactly the same thing. It is certainly something I notice (actually at the moment I'm noticing the opposite - a lot of the senior appointments are women. Which is brilliantly).

There is nothing wrong with your email. It is polite and succinct. It gives the manager an opportunity to think about your concerns and work out how to act.

I'd love to know what the response is - do keep us updated.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 04/04/2016 18:41

You have been rather coy about what your job and status was. You started off by calling yourself "a pretty junior minion around these parts".

Management structure, to me anyway, has 2 different meanings. You will have input in day to day delivery of the work done by some staff. You manage those directly.

You won't have input on matters such as strategy, assumption of partners, long term planning, expenditure , setting a budget, compliance with accounting and tax requirements, submitting accounts , paying taxes and NI, buying new equipment, leasing premises and the like.

buckingfrolicks · 04/04/2016 18:31

what's the betting the company has a shitload of 'values' about transparency, inclusion, openness and accountability - each of which she is demonstrating in her behaviour. Well done OP and although the big boss may have an initial defensive reaction (because of his stuff, nothing wrong in what you emailed) hopefully he'll have the maturity to reflect and respond from a thoughtful place.

CaptainWentworth · 04/04/2016 18:28

Yes, it's accountancy, and I am a qualified professional. I was recruited from another firm as an experienced hire. My job title is Assistant Manager; I manage other staff on jobs and report to more senior managers and directors/ partners. If I perform well I could reasonably expect to be promoted in the next couple of years.

Why would that make me not part of a management structure? What should I call myself?

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 04/04/2016 18:22

flogging she's a junior manager, surely that's exactly the right level to engage in how more women can progress?

Depends what and whom she's a junior manager of. OP hasn't said what the business is beyond it involves a partnership structure. If it is law or accountancy and if she's a junior manager in any of the support teams (none of whom will ever be partners) then her input is likely to be irrelevant to the career structure of the professional employees.

Professional staff at non-partner level might if they are senior "manage" a team of more junior professional employees but "junior manager" would be an odd way to describe such a working relationship.

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