Ian McEwan on gender identity

It isn't a criticism, it's an observation

Why do you imagine we are interested in your observations?

(Well because you have a willy - obviously).

What I believe to be absolutely necessary is to keep spaces for girls/women

Excuse typo

It's been discussed in chat and I am sure aibu

More and more people I know are becoming more aware of the issues that are being bought about with the insistence of trans women being accepted as women and being able to use women's spaces. For many still it seems so ridiculous that it's something that won't possibly happen so not worth being concerned over or some completely support transwomens rights over women but it is something that more people are becoming aware of

I would have thought it wasn't anything to be too concerned over even a year ago

Sadly the left wing press have silenced anything that is sees as anti trans even when what is actually about is redefining what is to be a woman (by mainly males) and many women rejecting this and women fighting against that I think we ar to keep spaces just for girls and women

But we are used to being silenced we are used to male privilege and it's nothing new that our considerations are not seen as that important

Well, I seem to have ruffled a few feathers. I came in here not to flaunt, but as I explained earlier, because I read his article at the week-end. And then I misunderstood an earlier post, for which I apologised. And in case it wasn't clear, I apologised for the misunderstanding.

And yes, it is niche. How is that offensive? It seems like a battle of wills between feminists and trans activists. And whether you like it or not, this battle is not at the forefront of public conciousness. Outside of Fwr, and now McEwan's article, I'd say very few people would know the first thing about trans issues. Be honest. For those who have non-feminist friends, how many of them would have a clue about the issues? Fwr is the only board I have seen it discussed. It isn't a criticism, it's an observation.

If there is a lack of online abuse aimed at men by trans activists, I'd think it is because very few men are involved in the movement and surrounding issues.

Anything other than that women might be disproportionately targetted, eh?

Bloody hell, "niche conflict"??

That's us told, then. Creating a fuss over nothing, eh? I think you have inadvertently nailed it, though Grimarse "very few men are involved in the movement...". Well, no, probably not, because it's not men's identity that is being redefined away from underneath them, is it? You'll forgive us if we have a different take on the topic.

I don't understand why you would come here and flaunt your lack of understanding of the problem like this, though, like it was a badge of honour? Maybe that's the male equivalent of a Victimhood Badge of Honour - the Unthinking Obliviousness Badge of Honour?

Anyhoo, back to the topic, yes it's nice that Ian McE is speaking out on this, the more the merrier, and probably no rape threats to worry about either.

That doesn't explain why the men who are involved, and there are a surprising number of them, don't get the same levels or types of abuse.

It's the same with gamergate. Men get some shit, women get threatened, doxed and swatted.

Anyway, this is a derail, so sorry OP.

What did the times editorial say?

If there is a lack of online abuse aimed at men by trans activists, I'd think it is because very few men are involved in the movement and surrounding issues. You can't be a target if you aren't involved.

I don't have to force sarcasm, Grim, I'm a natural.

It was a cross post with your apology.

So I apologise I cross posted with you.

I withdraw my excellent sarcasm. The threat to me wasn't a joke so I don't withdraw that.

Ah. Now comes the forced sarcasm and strained jokes......

WeMust, I misunderstood your reference. I withdraw my comment.

Yes I meant abuse from trans activists which is (almost?) exclusively aimed at women. I thought that was obvious given the context of this thread.

Don't be daft, Flora, Grimarse has obviously been blessed with the All-Seeing Eye when it comes to feminism.

Haven't all men?

And please, don't be giving Grim a gentle ribbing. It's almost as bad as having a man tell me that he knows where I live and will be round to pour petrol through the letterbox.

Must remember to take off my victimhood badge when I go out, wouldn't want anyone to think that death threats were scary now... or hyperbolic.

If by your original comment, you meant that only women get on-line abuse from transactivists, about trans issues, then I take your point and I withdraw my comment. That is not how I read it. I was referring to online abuse in the wider context.

Don't be daft, Flora, Grimarse has obviously been blessed with the All-Seeing Eye when it comes to feminism.

complain about* it

Grimarse wants to tell everyone how to discuss this correctly. Hyperbole is not allowed!

Grimarse if you are not engaged in discussions about trans politics you are not informed about the different treatment of men and women on the topic.

So even if this kind of abuse is aimed predominately, maybe even exclusively, at women, we aren't allowed to talk or complain it because men? Ok

Can you link to where a man has received public rape and death threats from trans activists?

So complaining about receiving death and rape threats is now 'wearing victimhood as a badge of honour'?

Ian McEwan doesn't seem to have his own twitter account, which may account for the lack of aggression directed at him, as perhaps these twitterers prefer to attack their target directly. There seems to be a fair amount of ageism, but none of the ire and hatred that was directed at GG.

I am not sure men are going to be threatened with violence and rape from other men trans activists as they are not so vulnerable to their threats

I wish more high profile women did speak out but I understand why they don't

What is hyperbolic is claiming that something only happens to women, and that men are exempt. It may happen more frequently to women. It may be more upsetting to women. Either of those are possible. But this need to wear victimhood as some sort of badge of honour has me scratching my head. I see it from time to time on this board, and this time, I thought I'd ask.

The whole trans phenomena passes most men by, to be honest. I tend to avoid the threads as they have no impact on me directly, and seem to be just a giant slanging match. There seems to be some sort of niche conflict going on in this area, that only feminists and trans people are aware of. However, I read McEwan's article on Saturday, so this thread caught my eye.

Well because women who post anything that can be vaguely interpreted as "transphobic" are usually rounded upon by trans activists and receive vile abuse. Maybe men do get the same treatment but I haven't seen it tbh. What's hyperbole about that?

Claiming that only women receive online harassment, threats of harm, threats of murder etc is patently untrue, and also derailing. Why post it at all? The discussion was moving along nicely without the hyperbole.