The SNP and gender recognition

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/justine-greening-confirms-plans-revolutionise-gender-recognition-act/

This seems a bit alarming. If this Act is passed, any man could claim to believe he is a woman and would then have the right to be in changing rooms, toilets, women's refuges..... absolutely anywhere that women could be in a vulnerable situation.
Or do you think differently from me?

I have short hair, am covered in tattoos, wear trousers 99% of the time and ride a motorbike. Fuck me I must be a man!

Bump

Hmm and meanwhile Kezia has stolen Nicola's thunder and declared herself gay first.

I hope they are going to build a whole lot more toilets for all us non binary types. Theres quite a lot of different categories to cover

How can we discuss the thing which oppresses us - the gender expectations that are imposed on us due to our sex - if we can't even use the words for it without being accused of transphobia?

Most people do not think about this, what they think, as no doubt the SNP have done here, is to think "well, if that person is sad because they want to call themselves a woman and it would make them happy if everyone recognised them as a woman, let's just let them". The idea that if we do this, women's sports are as good as finished and refuges and toilets will be overrun with men who are only there to rape women is too much of a leap.

Exactly Hovis.

Bottom line is "get out the way women and we will tell you what being a woman is"

Sorry, I'll stop blathering on momentarily - but it just struck me that a great irony of the transgender movement is that, whilst it's busy declaring the rights of transgender people to self-definition, it denies the rights of others to their self-definition if it steps outside of their intellectual framework of gender as a personal choice.

It also implies that women who do 'conform' to gender are happy with it, which isn't always the case.

Yes, quite! I don't want to put myself in a box - be that cisgender, transgender, or non-binary. I think the box is a load of crap. I'm a person with a uterus and whilst that has an impact on my life (both physical and societally-imposed) it is only one of the many many characteristics that make up who I am. I find it insulting to be told I have to choose between 'cisgender' (which I'm not, because I'm not happy with the expectations of gender) and 'non-binary'.

It also seems to me like a criticism of women who do not conform to gender norms. I grew up with that 'not a real woman' 'must be lesbian' 'butch' type bullying. This feels v similar in a 'caring' 'oooh you must be non binary' way. Feck off, i've got a female body and my own individual personality.

Bombadier

That article makes me very frustrated, in particular the use of 'male' and 'female' to refer to gender. Male and female are your sex and that is pretty fecking medically and biologically significant. Also, what they describe as 'gender non-binary' sounds a feck lot like a gender-critical feminist, except they're accepting the existence of the intransience of gender norms (ironically, by stepping outside of them!) rather than rejecting them wholesale.

I am actually deeply troubled by the attempted redefinition of the terms 'male' and 'female'. It will be damaging to straightforward communication in medical and scientific contexts and it is seriously damaging to gender-critical feminism. How can we discuss the thing which oppresses us - the gender expectations that are imposed on us due to our sex - if we can't even use the words for it without being accused of transphobia?

Various news outlets reporting this have quoted David Robertson (moderator of the Free Church) as calling the policy 'destructive of humanity', and have made him out to be massively homophobic. This is his actual POV on the matter, which (in terms of the trans discussion) actually seems to ring true with much of what people on the boards here have been saying:

theweeflea.com/2016/04/01/the-ultimate-april-fool-an-open-letter-to-nicola-sturgeon/

Strange times make for unlikely bedfellows I guess...!

I do wonder whether the main part of the issue for a lot of transwomen is how gender is such a big issue for men.

If you look back over the past 100 years, in western cultures, women have worked hard to knock over restrictive genderised social norms, stereotypes and economic and political rights that impact women's lives.

Men in comparison (being the more advantaged sex) have only experienced positive changes indirectly as a result of women's battles (for example, greater involvement in childcare).

In many ways women now have far more choice in how they express their gender then men.
Men who wish to reject male gender norms, rather than working to change them are taking what feels like a simpler option of wishing to identify as female. Also, men who don't want their norms to change are complicit in encouraging this approach.

It's not unlike non-feminist women in the 60s & 70s telling feminists they wanted to be men or were all a load of lesbians.

Is the difference in approach because women were fighting for economic and political parity for all women and not just their own individual right to not wear brogues and a tweed suit?

Its actually v sad that we are all distracted by this level of individual navel gazing that we dont notice the massive discrimination based on physical body traits

www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/news/a43461/what-is-non-binary-gender/

Another high profile non binary person explains the concept

That video made my fucking head ache.

Just how does one achieve that level of cognitive dissonance?

Such is progess

I genuinely do not feel my biology (female) matches the stereotyped personality/gender roles attached to 'female' (thats the dresses/make up/pink part) but i always thought that was because the stereotype was shit and should be changed. In the brave new world, it is me that is wrong, not the stereotype, therefore i shall embrace my new label of non binary.

Lol yeah its kind of a joke on my part but not on the part of the cutting edge nonbinary trans community where biology is no longer relevant to gender, and gender is a spectrum, leaving us with the question 'what is gender?'

Yes, well, I am clearing out my garage in a tracksuit today with DS, so I am clearly a man today. Until I cook his lunch and get changed to something prettier to go out. Voilà woman! Magic.

I agree about genuine hurt re intersex and body dysmorphia. But this is not the answer.

It would certainly be a step forward to have hobbies and favourite colours determining gender.

Sorry if I have read this wrong, but is this a joke?

Why would favourite colours or hobbies be something that should determine gender? I love blue. And lots of sports (some of which are traditionally dominated by men). I like DIY and played with cars and Lego as a child, hated pink and didn't like dresses. I am still a woman, still female, and never thought otherwise.

Colours and hobbies (and toys) should absolutely NOT determine someone's gender.

Well, if the G part of LGBT goes against T too, some one might listen, on account of them being men and all that.

He, so today I feel more interested in checking the oil in my car than cooking a lovely roast whilst wearing a pretty dress so today I am pretty much a man? Or if my car was pink and I had some very cute flowery gloves to wear whilst checking the oil I'd be having a gender fluid day? This makes my head hurt so in having a headache I must be a woman or does that only count if a big hairy man wants to have sex with me?

I'm all for live and let live btw and it's tragic if people in genuine pain don't get the support and recognition they need.

It would certainly be a step forward to have hobbies and favourite colours determining gender.