why don't we just stop talking about body shape and size full stop?

No we aren't. You only have to read male dominated forums and how they speak about women to understand that really we aren't our own worse enemies. We just take on board the messages we receive. From the male run media. From male run society where men are positioned as 'doing' and women as 'adorning'. Men also reinforce the status quo - often by positive reinforcement like admiring what they consider to be a nice body/face.

Where do you think street harassment or sexual harassment on public transport comes from? This is overwhelmingly done by men from a position that women are on this planet to please men and we are only 'allowed' in their spaces if we do that. And that's only one example.

So no, we aren't our own worse enemies.

For some reason the only people I ever hear discussing someone's body shape or size and making judgements about it are women.

Sometimes I think we're our own worst enemies.

Agreed SilverBirch.

Completely agree SilverBirch

I personally think that the whole focus on and othering of obese people actually creates more obesity.

Over eating to the point of making you unhealthy overweight is no different to any other eating disorder. The more we obsess about size, diet and body shape the more individuals will feel anxious about themselves. This results in an unhealthy relationship with food (& exercise) resulting in anorexia, bulimia or over-eating. It's always much easier to make healthier choices when your self-esteem is good.

Oh i see If we are talking waist i have got a fitted size 12 skirt i can get into t shirts and tops a size 14 yet if i buy a blouse that has to be buttoned up its an 18 because im a 32HH. Yet my shoulders are v. small so tops tend to fall off my shoulders. Im an hourglass .

Helena, I'm very overweight at the moment, but I have been in the acceptable weight in the past. If I lost 6 stone, I would drop around 5 dress sizes, and Lisa Riley is significantly more apple shaped than I am. From the pictures I've seen, her whole shape seems to have changed, so I can see how she could have gone from a size 30 waist to a size 16 waist.

Really OpenMe? Care to expand? Here are some figures from England: www.noo.org.uk/NOO_about_obesity/inequalities and here are some from the US www.ibtimes.com/heres-how-obesity-relates-gender-race-income-us-charts-1469056. Ratios seem pretty even across genders. Certainly not untrue "by some considerable measure".

"there are just as many obese men as women" That's not true, not by some considerable measure

Check out the overweight kids thread on AIBU People minimizing the bullying of overweight kids. On a PARENTING site. I am absolutely disgusted.

When Lisa did strictly she had slim legs she carried most of her weight around the centre so it possible she could lose that amount with that many dress sizes. But that also suggests with women it is more about the image than the health as this is what many focus on.

I used to be obese. I was 21 stone and a size 28 Ive had to drop 10 stone to get down to a size 14.

I agree with everything you say scallops but there is another element which is inaccurate representations of weight loss in the media. This week it was reported that Lisa Riley has lost six stone to get from a 30 down to a 16. This is going to sound like im doing her down and im not but its not possible to lose that many dress sizes from that weight loss.

What worries me about it is that young women and girls will read this and think its possible to lose that many sizes with that weight loss and it isnt

And abusive men will use it as a metaphorical stick. "i know you have lost weight darling but how come you have only gone down this amount of dress sizes when Lisa Riley has gone down all those sizes."

Its bad enough that women have all this pressure to look and be a certain way WITHOUT this blatent inaccurate reporting when a celebrity does lose weight.

Its irresponsible inaccurate reporting which puts even more pressure on women.

I do try never to mention my body issues or weight around my DDs, and to talk about exercise as positive, healthy and fun. They are little and it angers me that they will have this crap ahead. I'm determined not to pass on negativity and self hatred like my DMdid to me. Wish I could kick it for myself though.

The thing is I think a lot of women take pride in and enjoy discussing their weight, the weight of other women, comparing themselves to other body types, losing weight, gaining weight etc - the whole 9 yards.

It is the larger attitude that women's bodies are something to discuss that needs to be tackled. A comment here or there about weight won't shift attitudes. In fact I doubt that this will become an issue of yesteryear in our life times. Women do seem to enjoy this regardless of the opinions of men. I think women will have to address this first before tackling the opinions of men. There are entire boards and sections here on MN dedicated to weightloss/gain, entire sections that discuss the body type of certain women largely coming from women. It's almost a self-hatred. It's almost as though it's the one thing that unites us all above race, class, status etc.

I'm also thin and when I'm stressed I become even thinner. I don't need another woman to tell me that she thinks I should eat something. I find that a lot more offensive than any man who'd comment that I looked nice in a bodycon dress for example.

The problem is though that it is women bodies that are disproportionally discussed but there are just as many men who are obese. Men's bodies aren't discussed to the same degree. If we were talking about bodies purely from a health angle then we would be discussing men's bodies too.

But eating disorders also disproportionally affect women. Because women's bodies are discussed more.

I agree with you OP. Less focus on talking and analysing the shape/size of women's bodies would probably help a great deal. In addition reduce talking about the eating habits of women and girls. If you see threads on here about parents who are worried about the eating habits of their children it is almost always about girls. Especially if they feel they are eating too much. The same worry does not appear to apply to boys eating habits.

It's also interesting in your example that women and exercise are associated with losing weight. Men and exercise is more often associated with keeping fit/competition.

With our growing obesity crisis and everything that comes with it, it would be negligent to 'not mention it'.

I agree

Goodnight

I don't know what the answer is but we can't just not mention it. It would be like saying we know smoking is bad for you but best not mention it.

The whole thing about the perfect desirable body is nonsense and harmful but so is pretending that it's ok to be very over (or under) weight