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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

equal pay

63 replies

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 16:14

This is a thread where I would like to discuss equal pay, for women who are not global superstars, who do not sit on a Board, and are not in the running to head the North American division of their companies.

in my own work, I have not progressed up the pay scale because of taking a maternity leave- my ML came at the end of the year, and only affected one month of that year, but because of that, my employers would not allow me to use any of my work from that year to support a move up the pay scale.

In my current job, pay is incredibly opaque and I have no idea how my pay compares to that of others.

I kind of think that pay transparency would be a good step towards equity- when everyone knows what everyone makes it is harder to justify discrepancies.

What do others think? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts

OP posts:

Lweji · 21/03/2016 20:10

Sorry, countries, not counties.

Lweji · 21/03/2016 20:10

Melinda has been addressing gender inequality and supporting women in developing counties. They have previously opened project calls for that purpose through their foundation.
Worth a look.

scallopsrgreat · 21/03/2016 20:06

I really like that link Lweji. I took it as pretty much following on from the OP. Not only do women get paid less, they have less paid work and practically 3 times as much unpaid work. I took it as highlighting the structural inequality in women's working lives.

Melinda Gates has gone up in my estimation (although the Gates foundation still doesn't support work around women have access to safe abortions - but that's perhaps because of US policy that the lovely George W Bush brought in and Obama hasn't countermanded).

SpeakNoWords · 21/03/2016 17:55

Your post addresses two aspects - whether you yourself are underpaid as a result of being female, and general pay inequality. People have addressed both your points, so I'm not sure what the problem is? No one is suggesting that equal pay is an issue for individual women to resolve individually. They have offered advice on how you can investigate your personal circumstances, as well as discussing the wider issues.

Original poster

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 17:31

I think I was using my own personal experiences as a springboard to talk about what I thought was a feminist issue

I really question the attitude that unless it affects all women it isn't a women's issue

Not all women suffer from DV, or other violence, or require access to an abortion- I would say these are still feminist issues though

OP posts:

slugseatlettuce · 21/03/2016 17:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 17:26

I think I wanted to talk about equal pay as a structural inequality

Clearly it is not, and for everyone to sort for themselves

You are right, I have in light of that received useful advice

I will ask for the thread to be moved to employment issues as it is clearly nothing to do with feminism

OP posts:

slugseatlettuce · 21/03/2016 17:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 17:22

Anyway I am done.

I saw this as an example of structural inequality, this is clearly not the consensus, good luck everyone getting equal pay for themselves

i will leave the thread now as I think my view here is so diametrically opposed to such an atomised view of oppression that it is probably counterproductive

OP posts:

Original poster

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 17:19

yes, wanting equal pay is ranting

failing to see how individual action can address and correct structural inequality is ranting

I'm not the one with the problem here. What is is about my posts you find so threatening you have to belittle and patronise me?

OP posts:

Lweji · 21/03/2016 17:13

You haven't yet explained why you read whatever into my first post. I assume it comes from the other thread on higher earners where I suggested you started another thread on average earners.

Really don't know what's up with you, but even from the other thread you were set on a rant, so do go on. By all means.

Original poster

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 17:12

I am sure you are a lovely person in real life - do please remember that a person is writing the responses to your posts, and try to not patronise me, talk down to me or be passive aggressive

OP posts:

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 17:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lweji · 21/03/2016 17:08

I recommend some chamomile tea, or some sleep...

Anyway...

the problem is figuring out if each of us are getting fair/equal pay or not. Statistics suggest it has been getting better in the UK
"The gender pay gap for median earnings of full-time employees decreased to 9.4 per cent, from 9.6 per cent in 2014. This is the lowest since the survey began in 1997, although the gap has changed relatively little over the last 4 years." www.equalpayportal.co.uk/statistics/

As I mentioned before, the public sector seems to fare worse
"The gender pay gap for full-time employees in the private sector decreased from 17.6 per cent in 2014 to 17.2 per cent in 2015, the lowest since the series began in 1997 and continuing the long-term downward trend. However, the gender pay gap in the public sector increased for the second consecutive year from 11.0 per cent to 11.4 per cent."

I wonder what it will take to bridge those final 10%.

It's interesting how the pay gap evolves along the employees' career.
"When looking at the differences for full-time employees, the gap is relatively small up to and including those aged 30 to 39 (with the exception of the 16 to 17 age group). In the 22 to 29 age group, women are paid on average slightly more than men. From 40 upwards, the gap is much wider, with men being paid substantially more on average than women."

Could it be an effect of child bearing and rearing, with more women working PT and thus attracting lower salaries because they may not be on a "career path", or an historical effect?

Original poster

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 17:08

ok, fair enough. If I'm underpaid, it's my lookout, and for me to sort. not a concern for feminism then?

OP posts:

slugseatlettuce · 21/03/2016 17:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpeakNoWords · 21/03/2016 16:56

It depends on the industry possibly. When I was a teacher, the pay scales were widely known, and I knew exactly what each of my closest colleagues were on. We would sometimes compare payslips, if one person felt a mistake had been made. In my current industry it is less clear cut, and I have no idea how much my colleagues get paid.

Original poster

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 16:56

as though all I have to do is just ask my colleagues, and if they aren't sexist pigs, they'll tell me, and then job done, equality achieved

OP posts:

slugseatlettuce · 21/03/2016 16:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 16:53

I have never in my life had a conversation about people's earnings either one I started or one started with me

It does not seem to be the custom in this country, it feels very taboo and personal

I would also question putting the onus on me to ensure I am being paid fairly, I think this is problematic but I can't put my finger on exactly why sorry

OP posts:

Kidnapped · 21/03/2016 16:52

Are you in a union, OP?

Could be worth getting them to ask HR if you feel it would be uncomfortable to ask.

Lweji · 21/03/2016 16:51

I suppose we could ask our own colleagues. If they are not sexist pigs they should be happy to share how much they earn for the same work.

I hope this is not misinterpreted

SpeakNoWords · 21/03/2016 16:48

If you have a HR dept, I would just ask them under the guise of doing some longer term financial planning or something similar.

I agree Theydontknow, those elements are very important to address also.

Original poster

crappymummy · 21/03/2016 16:47

we aren't all going to be CEOs though, or head of marketing in Asia

it would be great for those of us who are in less stellar jobs to be paid equitably

OP posts:

Theydontknowweknowtheyknow · 21/03/2016 16:43

I think the main issue with equal pay is not so much the discrepancy in the per hourly rate (many doubt there is one) but the subtle and not so subtle ways in which girls are steered towards careers that are less lucrative.

And the having children thing. Obviously.

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