Novak Djokovic saying women tennis players should receive less prize money than men

MiniMover, I don't think that's what he's saying. Let's fill in the blanks...

"Obviously it’s a very delicate situation. Women deserve respect and admiration for what they are doing. (But I'm not going to give them it)

You know, equal prize money was the main subject of the tennis world in the last seven, eight years. (I'm so bored of this subject)

I have been through that process as well so I understand how much power and energy WTA and all the advocates for equal prize money have invested in order to reach that. (because, you know, I'm a woman and fought for equal pay...)

“I applaud them for that, I honestly do. They fought for what they deserve and they got it.
(women deserve equal pay, but...)

On the other hand I think that our men’s tennis world, ATP world, should fight for more because the stats are showing that we have much more spectators on the men’s tennis matches. (more spectators than the women)

I think that’s one of the reasons why maybe we should get awarded more. (than women)

Women should fight for what they think they deserve and we should fight for what we think we deserve." (which is more than women players)

It strikes of some are more equal then others to me.

"Maybe it is more interesting for posters to pretend he shat on a picture of martina navrtilova while yelling women's tennis sucks"

what on earth are you on about? His comments are irritating because he is completely ignoring the fact that there is not a level playing field in this popularity contest. Unless you think that society's attitude to women's sport is exactly the same as men's sports?

Msrisotto's quote is excerpted from the longer one I gave, which was taken from the guardian

It would be an interesting discussion re:what he actually said- there are many important themes there, how is pay decided in sport, how should it be decided

Maybe it is more interesting for posters to pretend he shat on a picture of martina navrtilova while yelling women's tennis sucks

sorry I read it as the men's game brings in more revenue so maybe they should be paid more as a result

it does not say or imply men are better, or should be paid more because they are men

Ok, mrsrisotto, that quote sounds more in line with the BBC.

Hang on, Crappymummy, is that what he actually said??? BBC news was less clear on that. He sounds like he's saying the men should get more than they're currently getting ie a larger % of the revenue from the organisers. Not that he thinks they should receive more than the woman. It reads as if he's saying players should get more but that the ATP should fight for the men's game like the women's advocates fight for theirs.

crappymummy ...

What you're getting at is that women's sport is less valuable than men's sport, ostensibly because it attracts less of an audience. Ever wonder why it attracts less of an audience? Do you think that women's sport is as worthwhile as men's, or do you think that because men are larger and stronger, only their sport is worthwhile?

Here:

I think that our men’s tennis world, ATP world, should fight for more because the stats are showing that we have much more spectators on the men’s tennis matches. I think that’s one of the reasons why maybe we should get awarded more.

Are you pretending not to see it?
Men would only generate more revenue because men's sport is valued more highly than women's sport. Why do you think that might be?

players for Manchester United are paid more than those for tranmere rovers

I wonder why?

I'd like to see the likes of Federer and Murray coming out against this. Both fathers of daughters. Surely this cannot sit well with them.

sorry I thought he was suggesting it was because the men's game generates more revenue

Please could you direct me to his quote where he says men should be paid more, because they are men?

What he's saying is I'm not being a misogynist, but I think men deserve more pay.

As in, I'm not racist, but whites deserve better pay.

I would really like to see as much media coverage given to female games and female games played at prime times and then see if male games still attract better audiences.

Sure, it's the part where he said that the men should be paid more than the women because they're men.

at no point did Djokovic say anything negative about women players, women's tennis, or women generally. He did not belittle them.

An actual quote is

He said: “Obviously it’s a very delicate situation. Women deserve respect and admiration for what they are doing. You know, equal prize money was the main subject of the tennis world in the last seven, eight years. I have been through that process as well so I understand how much power and energy WTA and all the advocates for equal prize money have invested in order to reach that.

“I applaud them for that, I honestly do. They fought for what they deserve and they got it. On the other hand I think that our men’s tennis world, ATP world, should fight for more because the stats are showing that we have much more spectators on the men’s tennis matches. I think that’s one of the reasons why maybe we should get awarded more. Women should fight for what they think they deserve and we should fight for what we think we deserve."

you may disagree, but point out the misogyny please

What all this discussion of the length of matches, the ability to draw audiences etc boils down to, is the assertion that womens sport can only exist if it can match the popularity of mens sport. The problem with this is that it isn't a level playing field, and too many people don't value womens sport as a good thing in itself. Attitudes to female sports stars are crappy, and attidudes to women taking part in sport generally are also crappy - hence the need for the ThisGirlCan series of adverts. Coverage of womens sport in the media is crappy - "sports" pages of newspapers may as well be called "men's sports" for all the coverage of women that you see. Male sportstars are idolised and lionised in popular culture, women rarely so. and so on and so on. Perhaps women should just accept that womens sport is not valuable or worthy and just give it up. Djokovic would presumably be thrilled, as well as that misogynistic sod running the Indian Wells tournament.

Serena Williams gave a blistering reply to this. She pointed out that the women's final at the US Open sold out well before the men's final did.

The problem is that there is a bit of a circular argument going on. The women's game is 3 sets, the men's 5. This is not the fault of the women players as they did not set the rules. They are forced by the tennis association to play less than the men, who then complain that they shouldn't be paid as much. An obvious answer would be to either increase the women's game to 5 sets or reduce the men's to 3. Personally I'm in favour of the latter as the 5 set game is, quite frankly, boring.

The other issue here is the scheduling. Women's games are sheduled to fit in around the men's ones. The last match of any competition is always the men's final. The assumption is the spectators will want to watch the men's game so, if you want to watch the women's game you have to be prepared to attend at odd hours. They make it quite difficult to be a fan of the women's game then complain when there are fewer crowds. It rather reminds me of this quote from Hitchiker's Guide To the Galaxy

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”

I said this on the other thread and it kind of goes with what treacle said. I think there is a vicious cycle with some women's sport, in as much as it doesn't get the expose and back because it's not as popular in terms of number but doesn't have the numbers because of lack of expose.

I bet any of the Williams are better known than Novak Djokovic.

Not so small as to be amateur.
I mean real, proper teams.
My local male team pays £300k + per year as far as I can see.
To be honest I don't know whether a town's male teams and female teams are the same entity or not.
If they are, they could pool takings. If not, well, sadly they can't pay more.

Listening to this being discussed on 5Live earlier, apparently the argument about men selling more tickets only applies when maybe 5 male players, the likes of Nadal, Federer, Jokovich are to play. Once you get beyond those and make a comparison across the board, apparently women's tennis is significantly more popular.

Have to agree with those who say that in sports like this it comes entirely down to "draw". Women could play only one set, and men ten, but if it could be established that the women's side of the event was responsible for 90% of the ticket sales, advertising revenue, and whatever other money that comes in, then it would be quite right that the prize pot is split 90/10 in their favour. They caused 90% of it to exist after all.

Of course you could ask questions about why one side is more or less money-generating than another, and whether anything should be done about it. But even if the reasons why the women's sides generates less are "wrong", that does mean that money that morally belongs to other people (the ones who "earned" it) should be given to them as "the answer" IMO.

How much are a small town's men's football team paid? Aren't most small towns essentially amateur anyway?

And, if the club knew they had to pay all their players the same out of the club takings, maybe they might promote the women's games more. Now there's a thought.

MrNoseybonk there are tournaments at present where women are paid the same, so I assume they take ticket sales, sponsorship etc and split it into a set prize fund. I don't know exactly how it is done.

Yes, I suppose a tournament is easier as the funds can be pooled and shared out.
I had in mind something more like a small town's female football team. The players can be paid out of the gate receipts, but they can't be magically paid more unless more tickets are sold.

I'd like to see the men's and women's games dates reversed to see which gets more spectators.
Why not have women's finals on the last day in alternate years?

Anyway, I think it's appalling that any man should go forward and ask that women are paid less for anything. Does he feel robbed? Or less as a man for receiving the same prize? Weird.