How are we supposed to do ALL of this?

scallopsrgreat

Have you ever, called some one up on sexest behaviour? Actually called them a sexest? Actually educated them on why you called them sexest and how they should behave?

Because if women don't call it? Who will?

I have suggested that we start educating everyone men and women again.

Jesus call it abusive, if it makes you feel better. But i think you are doing a great disservice to people in actual abusive marriages.

Bottom line is society needs to re high light it. So that men know it's not acceptable and change. But women need to have a mind of their own too. They also need to know what's not acceptable.

I you don't think telling a man he's a sexest twat, is doing anything? Because if you have ever called a sexest a sexest you know, normally you have to back it up. So yeah telling them exactly why what they are doing/saying is wrong. Oh and they will argue even sometimes get angry. But you just keep telling them what they are doing IS wrong and why.

Yes educate boys and girls from an early age.

I'm just frustrated that I thought we'd passed all this stuff.

You know what I wish we were in a time warp and men didn't behave like this. But unfortunately they still do.

So it's still women's responsibility to police men's behaviour, is that what you are saying? What about if a man only exhibits this behaviour after having children? Should women just up and leave then? What about women who've had inputs all their life that tells them that men doing nothing around the house is normal? Yet they still struggle with that? Are they just stupid? Or a mug?

And the only input into men's behaviour is how women react to it? Because you haven't suggested anything else that might change men's behaviour. All you've suggested is that women change theirs. In fact you haven't suggested changing men's behaviour at all and they are the ones at fault. You've just advocated passing them on to the next woman who may be less equipped or more vulnerable to deal with him.

If find it ironic that you advocate women leaving men over this behaviour but you don't want to call it abusive.

Yes individuals can make their circumstances slightly better, after much effort

Individuals, should have drawn the line at the start and called a sexest twat and walked away. women should be calling out this behaviour on first sight. There are plenty more fish in the sea.

Honestly I feel like I've fallen into a time warp sometimes on mumsnet.

But if it is endemic then and we have gone backwards. Then WE all need to start educating everyone again.

I agree with Eustace2016

Many of us for generations have not tolerated sexist men so the first post seems very strange to us

What the fuck happened? Why have we now got a generation who can't see the subtle signs of sexism and then wonder why they are in a sexest relationship?

And there are ways of telling women that actually they don't have to put up with an unfair situation without also saying it's their fault they're in that situation in the first place. Especially when societal expectation is weighted towards that situation occurring in the first place and the women are being the conscientious ones.

Driode, there there dearest. Grown up conversation too difficult for you?

Of course it's victim blaming Lass. You are placing the blame for lazy arsed men at women's feet. Men need to take responsibility for house and children just as much as women. It shouldn't be women's burden to make that happen. Yes individuals can make their circumstances slightly better, after much effort. But overall it is societal attitudes need to change. Men are responsible for that. They are the ones that need to change. Women are already pulling their weight on the repetitive, thankless tasks. Men need to step up.

I just hope you don't have a DD that you are passing this pathetic view on to. No doubt she'd end up moaning on some forum in the future, about how all men are such children who can't even pick up after themselves, but she carries on with a sigh

But the opening post and many threads on are doing exactly that - complaining about the fact women are forced to do housework.

I find these threads utterly bizarre. Apparently suggesting that women in their individual relationships might actually behave like grown ups and sort it out is victim - blaming.

Let us open their eyes to how it feels to be a real live human who is competent on all fronts. It is a much better life

I agree- although possibly not in the way you intended that comment. You said "play the airhead female who simmers she can't do diy". Alternatively stop playing the eternal "wife-work" martyr too.

Interesting points.

1. Many of us for generations have not tolerated sexist men so the first post seems very strange to us. Why does a man have to be told to do those things when many of us have been married to men who do as much of those things if not more than we do?

1. Of cousre women do DIY. i spend half my life with my arm down drains, was pulling splinters out this morning from some garden work and amn ot too bad with plumbing either. If women are worried about breaking their nails - wow - poor women to have such concerns. Let us open their eyes to how it feels to be a real live human who is competent on all fronts. It is a much better life.

Wow! You're a gem. Men choose to have children too. They are men's responsibility. When you put your dick into someone, without a condom on it, you are making that choice there and then.

Apart from that, this thread is not even about anything you wrote and you are spectacularly stupid.

Wrong thread?

slightlyglitterbrained
That's pretty much it.

I love to do DIY and pride myself on figuring out things like how to install a ceiling fan from scratch or how to repair equipment. I even diagnosed a tough engine problem in my car a couple of years ago to the amazement of the puzzled mechanics. Knowledge is power.

About 15 years ago a single woman friend of mine decided she wanted a window overlooking the side garden of her little bungalow, in the kitchen. She picked up a sledgehammer and by the end of the weekend had a nice large window opening her kitchen and dining area to the sun. I believe her brother helped her a bit with the installation of the window frame but she did most of the work. Some of us get a lot of satisfaction out of being able to create what we want.

What I don't have and believe most women don't have is the motivation or the interest in those things

But I do know that I'm far more likely to break a nail doing that than I am making the beds

Well that's your choice if you don't want to be self reliant, and not bother giving yourself motivation or interest in diy, and like to prioritise a damaged nail. Rather than seeing

1.getting something done without it costing you money, by not getting someone else in to do a simple job.

1. Play the airhead female who simpers she needs a man to do it for her.

I just hope you don't have a DD that you are passing this pathetic view on to. No doubt she'd end up moaning on some forum in the future, about how all men are such children who can't even pick up after themselves, but she carries on with a sigh.

Household DIY isn't hard, and doesn't take much brainspace to learn.

Good summary I think slightly.

Personally, when it comes to nails the real killer is washing up for me. DIY, motorbike maintenance, general housekeeping, sewing not such a problem (although I don't keep my nails long these days)

I think the gardening comparison is an interesting one.

My family weren't gardeners, but I've grown stuff and gained a similar sense of satisfaction to that which I get from a clean house, or a knitted jumper, or a shiny car (I do find washing the car therapeutic actually - on a sunny day).

I wonder if the difference is that lots of people do treat gardening as a hobby, so if they don't feel like going out and dead heading, or leaving the lawn another week, they do, they only notice they skipped a job if they look out the window.

Whereas house work - hoovering, putting the washing away seems more relentless, and less like something that you can neglect. You're in the house most of the time, you always need clothes.

Anyway, I'm reading Lweji as saying:

DIY/housework: assembling flatpack furniture, mopping a floor, painting a fence, doing the hoovering, sewing on a button, mowing the lawn.

Pro-level or skilled amateur/hobbyist stuff: building a bathroom cabinet from scratch, designing and making a wedding cake of professional standard, making your own clothes, re-upholstering the sofa, retiling the roof, building an extension.

I'm not seeing the big difference between a specific tool like a hoover or a steam mop and a powered screwdriver, which is generally all I need to put together an Ikea flatpack.

Hell, you can assemble an Ikea flatpack with a teaspoon if you're enough of a bloody minded masochist

I'm talking tools that professionals tend to have beyond your usual drill.
Building a shelf cabinet is not the same as assembling it. And, again, hardly diy.

You need specific tools to do anything around the house that could be considered DIY . Stop splitting hairs. But I do understand your need to have the last word.

Just as likely to damage your nails doing house work as doing DIY?
I'm sure the majority of women would agree with you on that!!

But I do know that I'm far more likely to break a nail doing that than I am making the beds.
Having done quite a lot of diy, I'd disagree.

Building cupboards is not diy, it's carpentry.
You need specific tools and skills that are not really in the scope of diy.
Or you could consider building a house as diy too.

Of course it can be outsourced ~ what can't? But that costs money. I just had a quote to have some cupboards built and nearly had a heart attack.

DIY is not mind numbingly repetitive. Well ok I take tour word for that - I wouldn't know. But I do know that I'm far more likely to break a nail doing that than I am making the beds.