How are we supposed to do ALL of this?

You chose to marry a man who's a twat I'm afraid. I wouldn't have. Too many women seem to settle for this behaviour.

I live with dh for years before we had a baby. In that time we didn't even discuss who does what. It just got done by either him or me.

If it had needed discussing then it would have been along the lines of do it or fuck off.
Yes I've dumbed guys asap if they've come out with some random supposedly funny sexest shit or joke and they then didn't like the way I reacted to it.

DIY is a joint effort. there have been too many times were one has had to walk away and leave the other to it. I think we agree we much prefer being on our own for diy!

"Sorry but I really think that you end up with the partner you deserve"

Way too harsh. You don't necessarily know you're going to marry a manchild till it's too late.

And it's not as easy as simply not letting someone take advantage of you. If you want to make the marriage work and one or more of you has been brought up with the idea that to do the wife needs to take on more housework then you're fighting a fair but of cultural baggage there.

DIY is much easier than the boring everyday monotony of housework. Putting up shelves is fun. Wiping loos isn't .

I realise we don't live in a vacuum and socialisation is very real but for fuck's sake, anyone with a few brain cells can tell what's fair

I do agree with you - but I'm pretty sure there have been surveys (recent ones) showing on average women do a lot more housework than men.
I agree it should be even but for a lot of women it isn't.

My Dad is in his late 60's and has always been capable of housework, nae wifework.

My dh was brought up by a single mother and just as much brings up our kids and runs the house as I do.

I realise we don't live in a vacuum and socialisation is very real but for fuck's sake, anyone with a few brain cells can tell what's fair.

What on earth do you think single people do? If i hung around waiting for a stronger/taller/bigger handed person to do things i would get nothing done. Yeah it might be easier if there was a spare bigger person floating around but you make do with what you have. It would also be useful to have a very small person to climb down the back of the sofa for change or a giant person to get tennis balls out of the guttering but you just cant get the staff these days

Sorry but I really think that you end up with the partner you deserve. If you let them take advantage of you, many people, even the ones that love you, will.
I work 48 hrs a week but as it includes shiftwork and me being either off or at home (due to nights) 5 days in a row, I do all the shopping cooking cleaning and the vast majority of childcare. I'm not a saint I'm just not a head worker taking advantage of others.
Ill tell you who was a head worker though, my wife. The girl I fell in love with grew up in a house where she wasn't expected to pull her weight, then went to Uni where was a typical spoiled student and took advantage of her housemates as they were soft enough to let her.
When we got together she had a bit of a shock when I introduced her to reality.
She now works full time (35hrs) which means she is at work 5 days a week so I don't mind doing nearly all the domestics but if I only worked days like her I would certainly be kicking her up the arse to do half the work.

Thinking about it more I think I am being a bit of a twit ...Some DIY I definitely think it is just easier/safer for the taller/stronger person to do it but then again some bits are really fiddly and easier for the smaller handed person in the relationship so I shouldn't generalise.

On the other hand...isn't it a thing in that some things are designed more for women (buggies are often a bit low for men) and others more for men (the only example I can think of is that bus shelter seats are designed for someone 6 foot tall) and so it sort of perpetuates these uneven things...like a particularly tall DP may well rarely push the pram because he finds it uncomfortable....sorry that was a terrible explanation it's my bed time.

I really don't think DIY (although I am far, far better at it than DH) and housework are comparable.

Housework is completely and utterly relentless, never ending and thankless. Seriously, how often do the radiators need bled? Once a year tops and it takes half an hour. Most rooms only need decorating once every couple of years. It only takes an hour (not even that) to put an ikea book case together. And after decorating the living room or putting the bookcase together you get a big massive pat on the back. Cleaning the bathroom twice a week, 52 weeks a year until the day you die just doesn't illicit the same grateful response from the other adult in the house.

This is true aradia cooking, laundry, opening windows, children's arse wiping are all necessary for basic daily existence. Shelves are not. You will all survive, get to work looking presentable, avoid SS involvement if the shelves are still on the garage floor in six months. DIY and house stuff isnt comparable. The basics should be covered by everyone who lives in the house.

Don't have children with a manchild is the flippant answer but also true.

DH and I share the housework (plus we have a cleaner), there's things he's not so great at and things I'm not so great at and sometimes both of us avoid work but I don't think either is strategic incompetence since we're equally shite (and frankly we all have off days).

He is a properly fantastic Dad - was watching him get DS dressed on Friday and thinking 'damn I chose well' , he's got much more patience with the kids than I do and went PT when I returned to work after having DD1 so has served his time crawling around under the dining table picking up peas which I think really helps. Of course it also helps that we have always earned similar amounts so it's not really been an option to force one of us to put our career on the back burner. When the kids were tiny we both worked PT, now DH is FT but in a flexible and local role (so he does all school assemblies/doctor's appointments etc). I'm currently PT but work a bit further away (so do the wifework on my day at home but ignore it the rest of the working week).

The difference is that how much DIY needs doing EVERY DAY? The shit work, cleaning, cooking, washing etc is integral to keeping a household going. How often do shelves need putting up exactly? And how much time per week is devoted to each?

The only time i ever had trouble was getting the locking nut off the car wheel. It was on tight. The huge man who stopped to help me took ages to get it off and was bouncing up and down on the wheel brace before it finally gave.

Exactly rude. I can't say that my physical size makes it harder for me to do diy type tasks than it would a man. I'm not in the habit of laying large quantities of breezeblocks or similar heavy work in the course of normal household tasks. And since when is changing a plug or plastering a strength or build thing? Only instance I can think of is the odd too tight/rusty wheel bolt that I've had to stand on, that a larger female or average man might have used just arm strength for.

Stop parenting the third one. Its isnt an actual child. It will survive.

I don't know the answer. Somehow I've got three children but only gave birth to two.

My dad used to spend ages on a sunday night taking apart and cleaning his horseriding stuff. The bridle and bits and sadle all got saddle soaped. I remember him doing it on old newspaper in front of the fire. He was meticulous. There was no doubt about it, my dad knew how to clean- what he wanted to clean. Same with his cars now. Spotless. Because he wants to clean them. He has no interest in how clean the toilet is. He doesnt show that off to his friends. His friends wouldnt care either. Mum cares about the toilet. So she cleans the toilet. She doesnt show it off to her mates though. 'Cause that would be quite sad.

Strawberry - I find that some tools are annoying because the grips are too large/too heavy to hold comfortably in one hand.

But it's possible to buy drills, powered screwdrivers etc that are comfortable for me to use. Did you buy the tools? May be worth thinking about replacing some with more usable ones.

That was in response to strawberry.

Isnt that a bit like saying its easier for women to wash the dishes because their feet are smaller and they can get closer to the sink? Or theyre shorter so more comfortable pushing the buggy?

My parents are in their late 70s. My father was definitely not raised with parents who split the housework. Far from it - his older sisters were supposed to defer to him as man of the house.

Yet, somehow he was perfectly capable of doing laundry, DIY, cooking, mending and cleaning throughout our childhood, without making a big song and dance about it.

If men don't pull their weight, it's because they fundamentally don't want to.

Completely random thought re: diy though...I wonder if size has something to do with many women's (including mine) reluctance to do certain tasks though....as I've been on mat leave I've been trying to do a few little jobs around the house but I keep finding I can't reach/have to find a chair/am not strong enough to hold the thingy up...whereas it'd be a lot quicker and easier for an ave size man to do it.

I don't feel like I do anything more to keep our lives going than DH, my life feels very fair.

I have no actual advice though :( I guess I just want to say that it''s not inevitable than women have to have the rubbish end of the stick in families/relationships.

(I'm having DC1 in a few weeks...I hope I can still say the same after!)

In this day and age if you can read you can learn to do pretty much any basic household task if you want to. And thats the key point, it requires the desire to do it. Very many people say they 'cant' do X, Y and Z when what they mean is they dont want to and there is someone else there who wants to more than they do. Fine, if it works in your relationship. But own it.

It will be seen as women's work for as long as so many women see some household chores as mans work. Some people are naturally crap when it comes to diy, car maintenance, basic mechanics/ electric etc, but you'd expect that to be equally split across both men and women, and yet it's not. A disproportionate amount of relatively enlightened women are almost proud of the fact they need a man to do stuff like that, even though they'd be up in arms at the idea of cleaning or cooking being woman's work.

Not in the sense the man is doing his fair share by doing historically male jobs. But in the sense that too many women acting the wilting female about those very simple tasks is counter productive to the correct position that there aren't gender specific roles in a home or society.

(Btw, not directing that at whoever said up thread they were useless at that sort of thing, I'm aware some people of both genders are. More a general thing that it's mostly females who 'can't'. Which means that it's more a society issue than a natural ability issue in the majority of cases)

Well my boys only see me doing the housework, cooking, organising etc

Sorry rude my post was a bit "your average 2 kids family with one mum and one dad"
I'm sure the attitude of - you live here so you contribute to the housework - is the best one.