How are we supposed to do ALL of this?

PetShopGirl

It's not that straightforward because none of us are perfect and few women like housework anyway. It may not be easy to tell apart someone who is not keen on housework but will keep on doing it regardless because it's fair on both, or someone who is prepared to dump it all on his partner because suddenly she is dependent on him.
In the middle of the first years of the relationship, it may not be obvious. So, it's not always a simple case of "why did you marry a twat?"

People are missing the point.

Housework isn't valued because women do it.

DIY is valued because men do it.

"There are red flags but they are not always obvious. And most women won't dump a man at the start because he resists to some parts of housework, but "sees the light" and does it then."

But most women would (should?) aim to marry or end up in a LTR with someone kind I think? So even if the man they choose is a bit lazy and ends up trying to avoid pulling their weight then the obvious negative affect it's having on their partner should be enough to make him want to step up.

The fact that a lot of women don't have the self esteem to think they should wait for someone who treats them with fundamental decency is key here IMO.

I agree with PP...not all men are like this.

DP left me in bed until 9.48 this morning. I came down and made tea for us both and am lying on the sofa in my PJs. DP went to get dressed and brought a load of washing down with him and has put it on.

He's just gone into the kitchen and I can hear clearing up type noises.

I'll make breakfast now and he'll do last night's dishes. Yesterday we grocery shopped together (I mainly flounce and point and drive)...he pushes the trolley and carries all the bags.

And so on...and so on....

I made it my absolute mission to set up this dynamic from the off. It probably helps that I'm the breadwinner so I don't get any excuses about him working harder, contributing more financially, blah, blah. However I was very clear from dating onwards what my boundaries were around sharing chores and childcare.

It is incredibly difficult to change 10yrs down the line with 3 kids and limited funds
The key there is limited funds.
A man's behaviour can change dramatically from when a woman has no kids and has a good job to when she is at home with three kids and limited funds. There are red flags but they are not always obvious. And most women won't dump a man at the start because he resists to some parts of housework, but "sees the light" and does it then.

"You chose to marry a man who's a twat I'm afraid. I wouldn't have. Too many women seem to settle for this behaviour."

In an ideal world then yes you could blame woman for marrying such a world but that's not the world we live in is it?

In the real world we are encouraged (to varying degrees) from a very young age to see housework as something that women do and that men aren't very good at. When you're choosing a partner sure you can be picky and put "willing to share housework" on your list of husband criteria along with "good kisser" and "gsoh". But you'd be waiting an awful long time for the perfect man!

When you've been taught that housework-loving men are few and far between then it's not surprising that many women are prepared to put up and shut up. It's just supply, demand and being realistic about your chances.

Wifework is an extremely common female experience that a lot of women (not all) sleep walk into.
If women had the financial capacity to leave a lot would.

Does anyone really have to read a book about this?

By the looks of this thread and many many more on mumsnet. I unfortunately think the the answer is yes.

I think it's pretty sad for 2016

Have you read the book?

Do autonomous, thinking people never read books in stuff they are interested in?

Does anyone really have to read a book about this? Let me guess what it's content is - does it start from the premises that it's really, really unfair women are expected to do more of the house work than men? But the nasty old patriarchy makes it so.

Why not actually just deal with the situation?

But I don't think wife work is inevitable. Women need to know their boundaries and be ready to dump someone right at the beginning of the relationship if he shows any signs of being a lazy arsehole. It is incredibly difficult to change 10yrs down the line with 3 kids and limited funds.

A lot of women find themselves in this position. It is not inevitable but it is incredibly common.

But I don't understand why women turn a blind eye to it, in the beginning

Exactly. This whole "wife-work is inevitable" argument really irritates me. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy about how hard it is to be a woman.

Do autonomous, thinking people never read books in stuff they are interested in?

Anyone really interested in this should read Wifework (teenage girls should especially read this)

Or alternatively they could actually just behave as a grown-up autonomous, thinking person.

But I don't understand why women turn a blind eye to it, in the beginning.

I find it easier to iron out the crease's right at the early stages, when I'm less emotionally invested. Sort your shit out of fuck off.

If we as a gender want to be taken seriously when we say housework isn't a gender specific role, we can't as a majority live by the myth our female physical/ mental qualities are inferior when it comes to historically male jobs

Absolutely. I find these sort of threads absurd. I would go further - if women want to be taken seriously don't martyr yourselves by doing all of this and whinge about having to do it.

Anyone really interested in this should read Wifework (teenage girls should especially read this).

TBF it is easy to turn a blind eye to a man's laziness when you get together. But the disparity (and down right unfairness of it all) really kicks in when children arrive. Housework suddenly turns into an industrial operation and being in sole charge of the children (whether looking after them or organising someone else to) turns into a huge chore. Coupled with women often being a SAHM,going PT or shoved into the "mummy track" a lot of women find it financially difficult to leave a lazy arse.

queen I'm not blaming lazy men on women. I'm just saying that acting inferior about some roles is enabling. Just like it would be enabling lazy men if a woman genuinely believed housework is womens work. The difference is few women believe the latter, but far too many do believe, or at least act as though they believe the former is true.

Skimming through this, it feels like a wider issue re modern society is that for some reason women are still choosing men who don't pull their weight domestically.

My exh was great, everyone said he knows where the towels are kept, aren't you lucky? Except he was also a serial shagger of other women. He saw doing the housework meant I would have extra time to give him sexual favours in return. Such a put off, but the women he sought out found his helping in the house a sexual turn on, he told me this.

Hmm. But some women are in the situation of working full time, doing all the housework etc and should also fix the Hoover. And by doing this is their partner supposed to have a lightbulb moment and think "gosh, maybe now my wife has fixed the Hoover I should stop working her into an early grave by expecting her to do everything and get off my fat arse and wash the dishes".

I might be wrong but you seem to be blaming women for this instead of lazy men.

DIY = 0.5 hrs a week
Housework = 20+hrs.

Men who aren't pulling their weight aren't stupid, they do see mess and they know it is hard work but they truly believe that their or is is a get out of jail free card.

I'm not suggesting diy is as time consuming or necessary as cleaning or childcare, therefore the mans share is covered. I'm saying it's the common attitude that diy is men's work that helps perpetuate the myth cleaning is woman's work. If we as a gender want to be taken seriously when we say housework isn't a gender specific role, we can't as a majority live by the myth our female physical/ mental qualities are inferior when it comes to historically male jobs.

Eg if you metaphorically say 'sod that, we're equal, why do my genitals mean I should do the vacuuming?' You can't then say 'but could you fix the vacuum first because my genitals mean changing a plug and simple mechanics is beyond me'. It hardly adds credibility.

Seriously, just don't put up with this shit. There is only one way to clean, you clean until the job is done. I am sick of hearing that women are controlling because they expect a man to finish a job.

They appear to have chosen the same problem. They have choice in who they live with.

Yay to all RudeElf's posts.