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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Recording rape culture

91 replies

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 03/03/2016 07:42

I'd like to use this thread to record examples of rape culture - when individuals, the media, or both, minimise rape and sexual assault.

It's rarer now to see a headline about a "romp" and find it describes a rape, but some commentators still leave a lot to be desired.

I hope this will be a long running thread, as with the Victims of Violence thread, to note examples.

I will start with two below.

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BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 05/03/2016 17:44

Doug Richard, acquitted of child sex charges using the defence of reasonable belief that she was of age.

This article is ok and reports on a government committee's suggestion to remove the defense of reasonable belief under the age of 16 (rather than for it to apply from 13-17)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12148510/Why-the-Doug-Richard-allegations-prove-that-technology-is-toxic-for-relationships.html

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BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 05/03/2016 11:56

Remember the judge who thought a 16 year old girl could groom her teacher?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/15/judge-16-year-old-groomed-teacher-judges-lawyers

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BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 05/03/2016 11:54

So after committing the crime of sexual activity with a child, he will be in the same prison as those who murdered girls. And no doubt hundreds of others too.

Not sure why that's news but good spot of insidious "he's not a really bad person" reporting!

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BeyondTellsEveryoneRealFacts · 05/03/2016 11:02

The fact that newspapers thought that a separate article reporting that Adam Johnson has to go to prison with real, bad, criminals was required.

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 05/03/2016 08:30

Acknowledging and remembering, I meant to say

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BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 05/03/2016 08:30

For those who haven't seen the Victims of Violence thread, it's here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_activism/1065291-Victims-of-Violence?pg=21

A long running thread acknowledging women killed by men, especially their partners and relatives.

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Peyia · 05/03/2016 05:22

I knew most of you were nice! That's why I continue to lurk, I find this board really really interesting.

I'll only participate when I have something to say/ask a question. Thanks for the welcome.

Shame about the cheddars!

BertrandRussell · 04/03/2016 22:08

Can I borrow it too? It's needed on another thread at the moment.

PalmerViolet · 04/03/2016 22:07

Lilac.. I might need to borrow your troll repelling tablet. Grin

Glad you're sticking around Peyia, most of us are nice here, apart from some fairly obvious trollish people Smile

BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 04/03/2016 21:32

The Fall, that's what it was called (tired!)

Wrt match, I don't know. I am a bit pissed off at commercial sites hiding behind "oh, he wasn't convicted then" - it's your T&C, if you want to ban someone, you can. Would they have banned someone reported for stealing money from his dates, I wonder?

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BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 04/03/2016 21:29

Great post Lurcio.

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BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 04/03/2016 21:28

Sorry, not just dead women but murdered women.

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BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 04/03/2016 21:27

And you are totally right about televised rape and also televised naked dead women (see the series with Gillian Andersen and Jamie Dornan for example)

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BarefootAcrossHotLegoPieces · 04/03/2016 21:26

Clever tablet!

Hi peyia, I remember you from the chat thread, glad you are sticking around.

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LurcioAgain · 04/03/2016 20:45

Sorry Daisy - cat got on keyboard and scrambled your name as I pressed post.

LurcioAgain · 04/03/2016 20:45

##D+-'aisy - I mentioned+
Cologe in response to your post, because you ask. It (and responses to it) were part of, but not the whole story about rape culture.

Here's (roughly) what I put on one of the earlier threads on Cologne in the feminism section: it is possible to accept that taharrush gamea is a new phenomenon (and additional pile of shit dumped on women) that hasn't featured in western Europe in recent history (though one can point to mass rapes of German women by Soviet soldiers at the end of WW2, and to mass rapes of Bosnian women in the Balkan crisis); and also think that it shines a spotlight on a pre-existing, institutionalised rape culture in the indigenous culture (in this case article 177 of the German penal code, and the responses of the police, police chief and mayor of Cologne); and note that the same people in the right wing press jumping up and down about Cologne (quite rightly, but I would argue for dubious motivations) a week earlier were writing articles minimising attacks by white frat boys on American campuses, or writing articles saying date rape isn't proper rape. In addition to those points, I'd also say that it's been a gift to the far right (who aren't exactly known for their stellar record on women's rights). And I'd say that your pc points carry some weight (the Guardian, for instance, is still wilfully misreporting the number of attacks as only 100).

However, this thread is about a much wider phenomenon - sure, it encompasses women's rights being thrown under the bus when they conflict with the left's pet concerns of racism (Cologne, Rotherham) but it also encompasses the way the right is quite happy to reach for victim blaming as soon as the perpetrator is a "well to do white chap like one of us".

Common thread - women are bottom of the heap. I think it was Dworkin who said "the right sees women as the personal property of individual men, the left sees women as the collective property of all men."

Your continued insistence on limiting this thread to events in Cologne does look like derailing. It is not that we want to silence discussion of Cologne - but we want a much broader discussion. If I was a German woman, the questions I would be asking wouldn't so much be about the culture of the perpetrators but about "why is our law on sexual assault out of kilter with the rest of Europe to the extent that Germany cannot sign up to international conventions on preventing violence against women because it conflicts with the (overly weak) stance in German law?" and "why the hell didn't the police actually, you know, police the situation?"

Incidentally I didn't sign the petition because it was a wishy-washy "we are outraged and demand someone does something" statement, with no actual content. If I was in Germany, I'd sign a petition saying "rewrite article 177 to make no mean no and get rid of the concept of presumed consent." In this country, I'd sign a petition to revamp our laws round, say, the age of consent, such that for any child under 16, if the sexual partner was over 16 and the age gap between parters was greater than two years, the older partner was automatically prosecuted without regard to whether the victim had supposedly "consented" or not. If we can have laws round alcohol usage that put the onus on the retailer to check age, I don't see why we can't have similar for sexual assault of children.

LilacSpunkMonkey · 04/03/2016 20:29

Oh, you're just stirring now Daisy and making yourself look pretty silly to boot.

Nowhere on this thread has anyone said they don't want to discuss the Cologne attacks. People have repeatedly pointed out that there are multiple threads about the Cologne attacks. You have accused people of being PC and trying to shut down debate.

Palmer, clearly my tablet is aware of his nickname and changed it for me to keep trolls out! Grin

Peyia · 04/03/2016 20:20

It disturbs me how rape is televised. I had to turn GoT's off on that particular episode. Why show it/write it into the story? It didn't add anything and left me angry.

Despite it being fiction there are lost souls that think women are there for them to use/take. Particularly their partner.

Peyia · 04/03/2016 20:15

Daisy I'm also new(ish) and at times feel people shut the debate down, in a rude manner. I don't think anyone has done that to you here. To be fair you said you couldn't believe there had not been any discussion on Cologne and you were pointed to a thread were the discussion is dedicated to that, thousands of pages worth. That's people being nice, trust me!

I'm appalled at Match.com Are they liable to the victims? Can't believe they never acted on the reports.

cadnowyllt · 04/03/2016 20:04

Cadno

BertrandRussell · 04/03/2016 20:04

"If don't want any mention whatsoever on the rapes and assaults in Cologne on this thread you should have made your thread more specific."

What on earth are you talking about?

PalmerViolet · 04/03/2016 19:58

Lilac... cheddar is also a name used for him because idiots search for his actual name so they can go and troll. Especially now that the rapist is going to appeal. (so I kinda thought you'd done it deliberately)

Daisyonthegreen · 04/03/2016 19:55

BareFootAccrossHotLeg
You yourself allude on this thread to Cologne on March3rd. 16 08:21:04

Lurcio of also alludes to Cologne on March 3rd 16 08:12:08

If don't want any mention whatsoever on the rapes and assaults in Cologne on this thread you should have made your thread more specific.
You should also not have mentioned it yourself on here.
Which you did .
As your readership here is so abrasive I shall not return or look at this thread again.

LilacSpunkMonkey · 04/03/2016 19:41

Yes, I know the convicted rapist Ched Evan's full name is Chedwyn. I wrote 'Ched', my tablet autocorrected to 'Cheddar'.

But thanks for your riveting contribution, Cadnow. Anything pertinent to bring to the discussion apart from pointing out my autocorrect?

I love how asking someone why they're concentrating on 'foreign' attackers is seen as 'muzzling debate' when there have been something like 11 threads on the Cologne attacks on this site alone. Also, I tend to read someone calling someone else 'pc' to mean 'I want to be offensive and you're not letting me'.

We're discussing all forms of rape culture on this thread. And the most recent one is the case of convicted child abuser Adam Johnson, so excuse us if we focus on the assault of a 15 year old girl. Also current and also happened right here in the UK.