Why are men so turned off by women with short hair?

I have hair in a similar style to jamie lee curtis, tiny little "sideburns"

Hairdresser suggested cutting them off to do something different (she hasnt much to work with to be fair) and dh said no as it would make me look more manly

He is convinced that my short hair makes me look like a man. Every female i know says it suits me, women have stopped me in the street and at work (in a shop) to ask me who cuts it and how i style it...but it makes me look like a man to dh

I wear a tonne of makeup and shave so i am not being "smug" but i think it is socialisation

Dh would love a tiny blonde petite thing with long hair but he's got me

Oh, Lass, you are the mistress of the selective c&p.

Listen and reject, if you want to, but listen!

I have "listened and rejected" No doubt the response will be - but no you haven't, not really, you only think you have- socialisation and all that. Trump card.

Quiero would you prefer if women deliberately chose hairstyles, clothes , styled generally that didn't "suit" them? That made them look as unattractive as possible?

Your posts seem to disregard the idea of choosing a personal style for oneself.

A poster asked "who are you doing it for"

I am doing it for myself but answers like Bert's insistence that it's socialisation denies that- can't possibly be.

So sorry I stand by what I said . No matter what my opinions are on other current threads -say the Breitling one or the surrogacy thread - I find this thread irksome and depressing and an example of the patronising navel- gazing which puts me off identifying as a feminist (on which subject there have been several threads in the last few days)

I don't think the word "reductive" (which I had to look up) applies here.

What I think ought to be recognized is that when it comes to matters of appearance, women typically have far more options than men, and women are judged on how well they make choices that match their circumstances, or "suit them" or don't look like the dreaded "mutton dressed as lamb". Whereas men are expected to wear something like a uniform, one style fits all, and they're criticized for not wearing it properly, and if they pass muster they're ignored. As with that Australian TV presenter (male, of course) who wore the same suit for a year, and nobody noticed.

As sometimes gets mentioned here, "choice" can be a slippery concept. We're under all kinds of influences, some of them openly coercive and some very subtle. It's hard to say what we really genuinely like, if we've grown up in a particular environment. And there's a word I've seen, "homosocial" which means that people feel impelled to do things that others are doing in a group that they want to feel a part of. For instance, there seems to be a range of "lesbian hairstyles" that lesbians might have opinions about, but they don't seem to argue with the idea that those styles are going to exist. If the title of this thread is accurate, maybe that means there are certain things that women do (i.e. have short hair, maybe even no hair) if being attractive to men isn't an issue for them. But then, if we've grown up in a conventional way, what we've lived with all her life is what's comfortable, and if we find something unfamiliar, we might just not find it attractive.

Good post Quiero, totally on point.

I totally agree with Quiero but it's such a difficult argument because it's about personal taste. And people can't help what they do or don't find attractive, whether that's down to socialisation or not.

So... I don't find long hair on men attractive. Is that because I have been conditioned to think long hair is un-masculine? I don't know - I just don't tend to find it attractive. Presumably many men would truthfully say 'It's not that I don't think women with short can be feminine or attractive. It's just that I tend to find long hair on women attractive'. It's not as if the vast majority of men would actually consciously think 'short hair equals masculine and unattractive' (at least I doubt they would ).

Good post Quiero.

Christ, another depressing thread. There's no better evidence of the patriarchy dong it's job than when women start denying socialisation and accusing others of smugness and suchlike.

To attempt to get back on track, I simply cannot accept that hair length and its perceived attractiveness is anything but a feminist issue. Even comments about whether it suits your chin or what not scream of socialisation to me.

Of course men are also judged by their looks/hair length etc but to claim it is to anywhere near the same extent as women is reductive.

And, actually, I don't think anyone has been smug. It's such a dismissive, closing down accusation. We're discussing. We're sharing experiences. You appear to be the only one going on about people being smug, and women criticizing each other and being superior.

"I saw your response about no-one being free of social conditioning, maybe not but does that justify the smugness by those who clearly think they resist it better than others?"

Oh, I do struggle with this. OK. We are all subject to social conditioning. However there are plenty of people who vociferously deny that they are. Is it "smug" to suggest that we all are, and that it might be a good idea if they consider wither they are actually as free from influence as they think they are? How does any of us learn anything, or develop or grow if we don't listen and think about what other people have to say? Listen and reject, if you want to, but listen!

I don't think it's anything to do with hair, I think it's to do with perceptions of age which is a proxy for naivety, perhaps vulnerability but most certainly fertility.

The longer, more luscious hair you have, the younger and more fertile you are perceived to be. Moreover, the younger you are, the more likely you are to put up with shit behaviour in relationships due to lack of experience and confidence.

I speak as a 30 year old woman currently with a blonde long bob but I've also had very short pink pixie, very short black pixie, very long red curls and very long mousey brown tresses.

The quotes you give suggest that men who like women with long hair are thick, not the women with long hair!

Er, yes. That is what I said. This thread has had men who like women with long hair being called thick (or similar wording)

I referrred to men being called thick. I commented on- the assumption that menwho like women with long hair lack intellect.

What grates is the superior attitude of not only being a woman who is above social conditioning - and wow , you get a more intelligent man as well.

I saw your response about no-one being free of social conditioning, maybe not but does that justify the smugness by those who clearly think they resist it better than others?

As almond said a while back - feminism is about criticising other women's hairstyle,?

I haven't got a problem with that as I'm only attracted to the stereotypical tall,dark, handsome man.

I think the "thick" comment was in relation to men who buy into the long haired big busted tiny waisted high heeled stereotype of feminine beauty.

Why are men who like long hair thick? Are women that like tall men thick? How about liking men who are not bald? Or one that's currently a hot topic on MN liking a man with a good earning potential?

And, as I said earlier- there has to be social conditioning for some people to reject it. And rejecting it is acknowledging it and conforming in a different way. So the system's got you coming and going!

I have very strong memories of my school days and rejecting the pressure from other girls to do the whole obsession with your appearance girly thing. Although I was slightly excused because I was seen as academic and being dykey was thankfully still below the radar. Which is what I meant by the academic proto dyke line.

I love long hair on men but not many can pull it off. Straggly ponytails are not a good look!

I had an Asian boyfriend who had beautiful thick wavy shoulder length hair and it really suited him. Was lovely to run my hands through it. Wish more men had hair like that!

Isn't it the old age rule

Men have short hair
Women have long hair.

I suggested getting my hair cut short my OH said oh please don't, short hair on girls looks like a bloke

So there's a mans point of view. I'm sure it's not every mans view but a few as I brought it up work and got a similar response.

"Bertrand of course I couldn't possibly believe I have free will- how could I? After all my poor little brain turned to mush learning all the girly stuff. Still it must make "proto-academic dykes" feel good about how fabulously individual they are"

We are all influenced by societal pressures and expectations! All of us. None of us make choices in a vacuum. It is ridiculous to suggest we do.

"This thread is exactly what puts me off defining as a feminist. The smugness of criticising other women's choices ("wishy washy" "girly") , the assumption of superiority in doing so."

The quotes you give suggest that men who like women with long hair are thick, not the women with long hair!

I haven't seen anyone call women with long hair thick.

I expect you are confused because I didn't say that. What I said was

This thread has had men who like women with long hair being called thick (or similar wording)

At the start of the thread this comment was made

Also there is significant overlap between men who dislike short hair on women, and those who think that women with small boobs / athletic builds look like men

I imagine there's a lack of intellect involved

This thread is exactly what puts me off defining as a feminist. The smugness of criticising other women's choices ("wishy washy" "girly") , the assumption of superiority in doing so.

I'm really confused now.

I haven't seen anyone call women with long hair thick.

I'm sorry, I'm just not bright enough for this conversation.

Jeanne you said Eh? Your name isn't rude

I have not the foggiest idea what you are on about. You started talking about "rude" . I have no idea where you got that from or what point you are trying to make.

I don't know who you're quoting with the 'you girlies' comment? I've searched the whole thread and can only conclude you're either quoting from another thread, or making up a quotation to pretend something has been said that hasn't. I assure you, it's nothing I would say.

You really interpreted that as a direct quote?

I was not quoting any one. It was my interpretation, and I accept ,a simplification, of how this thread appears to me. As if that writing technique has never been used ever before on MN.

This thread has had men who like women with long hair being called thick (or similar wording)

It's had somedyke's and (others) dismissals of other women. She asked "who are you doing it for?" The implication, presumably it couldn't possibly be for their own selves.

Bertrand of course I couldn't possibly believe I have free will- how could I? After all my poor little brain turned to mush learning all the girly stuff. Still it must make "proto-academic dykes" feel good about how fabulously individual they are.

"I don't buy any of this "we are conditioned to think..." as not ALL women want long hair (ergo not ALL women were conditioned to think the same)"

No, not all women want long hair, but those who don't might be rejecting the same thing that some of those who want long hair are going for - the idea that it's more feminine or more glamorous so those who don't want long hair are still being conditioned if you see what I mean.