Young dependent male children in women's only spaces?

Oh and tell your online friend to find a more open kinder and not so nutty forum

MrsJayy, these are a few silly folks on the internet for whom parenthood is a long way off. Plenty of Radfems have boy babies that we manage not to eat for breakfast,

I think about 8 or 9 is a reasonable cut-off age, I don't generally see boys older than that in the women's changing rooms at our local pool, except for once when I saw a boy that looked at least 10 and his mum was washing his bum in the shower for him! Maybe he had additional needs or something as otherwise that was a bit weird.

Its all naked showering and sauna here (strict rules on that) but I haven't seen any issues with boys sniggering at boobies or staring or anything, kids seem to be well-brought up here in that respect due to family sauna customs (they already know what a naked woman looks like because they will see their mum/sisters etc. naked regularly in the sauna so seeing other girls and women isn't such a big deal)

Schwab, the second best way to handle that would be for a staff member to check for a free cubicle and give women in the room a few minutes warning. Then for the mum to step out when they were ready and do the same before her son left the cubicle.

The best way would be increased family provision.

What pisses me off is that the problem is the unsafe nature (perceived or real) of male only changing spaces, yet the discussion isn't about how men allowed those spaces to become so toxic, or why men are doing fuck all about it. It's all about how women of all ages have to deal with the fallout from it.

What would these radfems do if they gave birth to a dangerous boy baby ?

I am not meaning to be rude but I think you need to widen your circle and get off tumblr young boys are children segrating children from their mother s and other women is quite frankly ridiculous I think for public changing rooms its 8 or9 but little boys are not dangerous or encroaching on female spaces imagine a woman leaving a DV situation taking her boys with her and refuges turning her away because she had male children and she had nowhere to go but back to her abusive partner

Maybe Bertrand - they surely should, but I'd bet there aren't enough of them. I remember a recent thread where a mother was told that she should stand in a queue after swimming, getting cold, for the one family cubicle rather than take her autistic 9 year old son to use one of multiple free cubicles in the women's. That is a two tier system if ever there was one...

"Btw where are these radical feminists who have a problem with male babies? FFS."

That's not a general radfem perspective, by the way.

Boys in women's changing rooms. 8 seems a reasonable cut off. Yes I have worked with male sex offenders too and I would let me 8 year old boy change in a male changing room. I may be more circumspect about some dodgy public toilets though.

I worry more about my 10year old daughter having to get changed in front of boys, that is more of the issue. If some daft mum brings her 10year old boy into women's changing I can live with it but it is inappropriate for me daughter having to.

It's a tricky area.

Btw where are these radical feminists who have a problem with male babies? FFS.

Don't most places have changing rooms that people with disabilities can use? Surely that includes "hidden" disabilities?

DrSeuss sorry cross posted - glad you agree she was an arse :o But that occasion makes me wonder if all these people seeing boys who are "at least 12" are also getting on their high horse about boys whose age they have over estimated (with the exception of the poster who saw a mum steering a son taller than herself of course).

I also worry about the single mums of young but older than 7 year old boys who are more than averagely vulnerable due to hidden disabilities being told they should stop going swimming (or using public toilets presumably...) It doesn't affect me but I can empathise as my now confident, self reliant middle child had a very shy phase where he would have been crippled with anxiety at being sent off to a separate changing room alone while his sister and preschooler brother got to stay with me...

Nobody thinks 5 year old boys should have to go into the men's changing rooms- or any changing rooms alone.

What many of us do think is that 8 year old boys should. Because our 8 year old girls have a right to expect that there will be none of her boy classmates in the changing room with her. And girl's rights are as important as boy's. It's not about anything ridiculous like all boys being predators, or adult women being "ogled" by prepubescent boys. It's all about girl's rights to a women only space.

DrSeuss primary school children are still getting changed all together in the classroom for PE at 8 and 9 aren't they, in general - some still at 10... I doubt the children are the ones bothered about getting changed together, while they are all young.

The best case scenario is cubicles for everyone of course - and plenty of family cubicles.

Where are all these communal or single sex changing rooms?

All the pools I know have mixed sex all cubicle changing 'villages'.

I use the big family cubicles with DD. Ds has wanted his own from about 6 I think.

With regards to other female spaces I've known feminist seperatists who won't tolerate being in a room with male babies which is bonkers imo.

There comes a point where single mums of boys can be quite excluded from some feminist spaces.

But on the other hand I've known 5-7 yo boys to behave in ways I can see why you wouldn't want them in 'safe' places. If they've been exposed to misogynistic men they can copy a lot of that behaviour at that age.

Schwab, that woman was an arse and no one on the thread thinks five year olds should not be allowed in the changing room.

...to a pool without family changjng.

I don't take my 8 year old boy into a women's changing room btw - but when he was a shy 5 year old I was "told off" by having him in the women's with me - that women "knew" he was "at least 8" and as I didn't have his passport or birth certificate with me I couldn't prove her wrong. Some people can be real arses about this - and they are persecuting other women, its nothing to do with boys being more or less important, it is women driving other women out, because a mother has to look after her child, in circumstances where she doesn't have a known male adult to hand her male child over to at that point in time.

And what about mothers of girls who end up staying home because they don't want to change with boys?

Mother of boys here. Just as there was a period when I was younger that my eldest was too old for the toddler session and too young to meet pool ratios when I took the baby, I had to only go swimming when another adult could come. There may well be a year or so when I feel unconfortable about the eldest being on his own so I won't take them in that year.

RidersOnTheStorm this is trotted out so often and it is so tired and so blatantly twisting the words of the people who feel they need to have their boy children with them.

boy children are not more important than girl children. Children are children. Exactly equally important.

Nobody has said boys are more important except you, you are just twisting people's words and motivations to make yourself sound reasonable in saying mothers of vulnerable boys have to take the hit for not having decent family provision by staying home.

Remember, the enemy here (as this has become yet another swimming pool changing room threads) are those who commission and design pools, not other users.

There should be much better provision of family changing, where both sexes can go, plus separate sex for those who want it.

Until that happens, then you need to respect the rules of the pool you visit, to choose a different one if you do not like it. Yes that might mean you have to travel further, but so will the people holding the opposite view who will also to a pool with tolerable arrangements for them. And in the meantime, you can both campaign to get your local pool owners to put in the right facilities.

And there is nothing 'magical' that happens when they turn 8. It's simply a reflection of normal levels of independence in children, most of whom will have been at school for several years and developed the requisite competencies. Many would cope much younger, given a chance.

Who are all these women being discussed who "walk around naked"???

Any communal changing I've been in, women stand by their own little bit of bench/locker with a pile of clothes, get dry and dressed without moving much. Because it's women only, they can rub their boobs and bits dry without putting the bra on over the towel and then feeding the towel out of the bottom or whatever. That's it. Stop acting like that's unreasonable!

LurcioAgain - good post (all of it, including the lazy single men using the family changing rooms!)

I agree all cubicle unisex changing rooms are the way to go at large pools - that is what we have at the pool we usually use too, but I have been to a pool, taken by a friend with just one daughter who hadn't even thought about where small but not that small boys would change, where it turned out the mens changing room was actually on a different corridor to the women's - quite a big ask for even a shy NT 8 year old boy to navigate getting changed and showered and stuff into lockers and through to the pool in an unknown layout a long way from his mother and sisters, not knowing where to ask for help, even if you take any worry about assault out of the equation.

I have never actually seen a women's changing room full of prepubescent boys, but do see people using the family cubicles alone (presumably because they are quite near the entrance or because they like the space) which does annoy me a lot - doesn't affect me much any more but did used to infuriate me when I had 3 kids under 6! Not a feminist issue - it would be women as often as men, just general arrogance and "your needs are not my problem" attitude as shown by the kind of posters who think mothers of vulnerable boys should stop going swimming rather than take the only feasible option of taking their child into the women's with them - ideally straight into a cubicle.

Cross posted with anne.

Why do boy children have more "rights" than girl children? To hell with little girls feeling uncomfortable changing around 12 year old boys, they need to suck it up because the boys have a right to invade their space?

I am the mother of sons. I didn't feel punished. I taught them that they kept to the rules and respect for women only spaces. That's my job.

I'm telling them to stay home if they don't want them to use the allocated place, HoneyBadger. Both DSs used the male changing rooms from 8 onwards, it's their space.

If a parent isn't happy with the changing arrangements then she is not entitled to invade the privacy of many other girls and women. It's rude.