Young dependent male children in women's only spaces?

My son has autism and I brought him into the swimming pool changing rooms with me until he was 8 years old, although we both changed in a family cubicle. We got a few dirty looks even then, but what could I do? Does 'womens only space' trump 'being inclusive to disabled children'? I'm a feminist, btw

After that age, though, I did have to train him up to use the men's changing rooms safely. I would probably have left it later to do that if it was based on my own feelings, but he is very tall for his age and we just got fed up with the looks and comments.

"If everybody has all of their vague uncomfortableness pandered to, we will just have a more isolated, jumpy and paranoid society.."

Since both sides are discussing discomfirt, not sure of your point here.

" I don't feel comfortable sending Ds1 alone to get changed. I have never been in there."

Surely it'll be roughly like the women's - some cubicles and some open areas, by your description? You could always ask a staff member what the layout is.

And as he gets older, you'll still never have been in there. When are you comfortable he can go in alone?

probability is of winning

If everybody has all of their vague uncomfortableness pandered to, we will just have a more isolated, jumpy and paranoid society..

"About zero" is exactly the probability is winning something substantial in the lottery, and yet some people win every time.

It is clear that more sexual assaults are carried out by men than women. Therefore it is more likely that you would be assaulted in a "men's" space than a "women's" one.

Hopefully you are right to think that very few assaults are carried out. Zero seems incredibly optimistic however. And the figures are affected by all the mothers who take young sons into their changing rooms anyway, and all the places (all the pools where I live for example) were it's unisex anyway.

"The risk of being assaulted in the men's changing room may be small, but it's a lot higher than the risk of it happening in the women's changing room."

Is it any higher than it happening around the house of a cousin or family friend? Or at a sports or other club activity?

Or, statistically speaking, is it a heck of a lot lower?

But its hard for some to project their rape and abuse and patriarchy dominance/victimisation internal narrative onto a cat because it was never part of the generation culture or creating the economic and social structure they are afraid of...oh..wait..

"Why should I have to send him on his own if I'm not comfortable with that? "

Why should 9 year old girls have to share a changing room with him if they aren't comfortable with that?

"
The risk of being assaulted in the men's changing room may be small, but it's a lot higher than the risk of it happening in the women's changing room."

Really? I think it's about the same, actually. About zero.

Still, it says a lot that I feel uncomfortable about this. He is fine, more than capable, it's just he won't see that he is vulnerable. Why should he?

That is capable of being read in two ways. I think I'm with Bertrand on this. There will be other men, boys and fathers in changing rooms, are they just going to ignore anything which happens?

On the question of refuges, I Googled it and Scotland seems to have a cut off of 16 but England can be as low as 13.

www.gov.scot/Publications/2003/10/18296/27382

In the course of googling I found this very recent article by Erin Pizzey. She seems to have lost touch with reality even more. She does have a point about the need to break cycles of violence where it has endured for generations and is seen as normal (baby Peter 's family for example) and refusing to allow a 13 year old , even if accompanied by his mother, access to a refuge is questionable behaviour. The rest of her article however....
whiteribbon.org/mega-featured/how-feminism-succeeded-in-destroying-family-relationships/

Some people don't like cats seeing them in the nude...

The risk of being assaulted in the men's changing room may be small, but it's a lot higher than the risk of it happening in the women's changing room.

"I don't have statistics, which seems to be what you are after. I know from working with sex offenders that there is a definite risk in the scenarios that people on this thread are telling mothers to place their male children in. You can choose to believe me or not, that's up to you."

Of course I believe you perceive a risk. I'm just trying to find out whether it's an actual risk that we need to take action about or not. When you say you know there's a definite risk, do you know of cases where an 8 year old boy has been sexually assaulted in the changing room of a swimming pool? Where it actually happened?

I have a tall 6-year-old who is bursting out of size 8 clothes atm. His presence on women's areas has not been a problem yet because he is so obviously a child (in his words & behaviour) but I expect there to be several years when he won't be welcome in the female areas but will not be safe ito change in men's either. I will go for other places/solutions at that point.

As we say often in FWR, other groups' right to safety does not trump women's right to be safe and at ease in female-only spaces.

Yes he gets embarrassed. Has been aware of covering up since around 5-6. Hence why I go in the cubicles.

I would rather he was safe and embarrassed rather than somewhere vulnerable though.

I don't see the problem being him. It's the type of changing rooms available plus who may or may not be in there that is the problem.

OK, have just spoken to Ds1 about it. He would rather get changed on his own in the men's. Maybe I have been pfb about it.

Still, it says a lot that I feel uncomfortable about this. He is fine, more than capable, it's just he won't see that he is vulnerable. Why should he?

I really would like someone to tell me whether there is any evidence that an 8 year old boy is at any risk of being sexually assaulted in the men's changing room of a leisure centre swimming pool.

I don't have statistics, which seems to be what you are after. I know from working with sex offenders that there is a definite risk in the scenarios that people on this thread are telling mothers to place their male children in. You can choose to believe me or not, that's up to you.

Am I being a bit pfb? Maybe if you keep taking him into the women's changing room for much longer, I would consider 8/9 the cut off age. Doesn't he get embarrassed at going in there at 9? I remember being extremely embarrassed at my dad taking me into the men's changing rooms when I was younger than that.

Found this document if it's of any interest, with a big about different changing rooms options...

www.sportengland.org/media/42727/Swimming-Pools-Design-2011-Rev3.pdf

Blimey. I took my 3 dc swimming in the week after school. Ds1 is 9 and Dd1 is 7. Ds2 doesn't have lessons yet as he is too young.

We all go in the same changing room, the ladies. We use the little cubicles when they are free or go round the corner to a more private area. I don't feel comfortable sending Ds1 alone to get changed. I have never been in there.

Have I been doing something then that others feel is a big no? Why should I have to send him on his own if I'm not comfortable with that? Am I being a bit pfb?

I really would like someone to tell me whether there is any evidence that an 8 year old boy is at any risk of being sexually assaulted in the men's changing room of a leisure centre swimming pool.

Family changing cubicles are the way to go. My dh takes our dc swimming. He chooses to take them to a leisure centre with changing facilities that he is comfortable with.

Our ds is nearly 8. When out and about with me only, I will take him into the women's public toilets if needed. There is not a person on Earth who will convince me to allow my young ds to go into the men's loo. Because I am not allowed in there. I can't go in to check that he is ok. That there are no teenage idiots lurking or worse.

So for the time being, my young, male child will enter female only spaces when with me. For his safety. If anyone is uncomfortable with that then tough bloody bananas.

Refuges are really tough. Ideally there would be safe family units, I think.