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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I have made a most unfeminist decision and I am struggling with it

107 replies

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 20:48

I identify as a feminist, but have made a rather unfeminist choice last year that I fully intend to stick with, but am struggling to reconcile with my feminist convictions.

Is that 'allowed'?
Does it make me a hypocrite?? I suspect so.
Is there some validity in believing in certain principles but not living by them when it comes to the crunch??
Can certain principles be right and proper but don't applied in all cases??

I'd rather make this a general discussion than going in to ins and outs of it all wrt to us here - we've got a very good counsellor for that Grin

OP posts:
Movingonmymind · 19/01/2016 21:24

You're fond of him? Well that IS a good reason to stay!

Movingonmymind · 19/01/2016 21:23

Am in a not dissimilar position, OP and well-meaning friends with grown up or no kids have implored me to leave. Another quietly suggested planning, saving and getting "resourced up" to do so first. Seemingly very unfeminist (used to be termed a "running away fund", j believe) but actually not as that way lies choice, options and some control. My df also thinks j should stay. Had never considered how patriarchical his arguments were also before now.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 19/01/2016 21:20

Not a daft reason in the slightest!

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:19

Oh, yes, there ARE circumstances in which I could see myself making alternative choices.
Children/ageing parents come into it, but also, strangely, HIS distress that I know he would experience. Daft reason, but there you go.
And then there is the stupid fact that I am rather fond of the git...

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 19/01/2016 21:16

Grin Yes, if we uppity women knew our places, the world would be so much better!

But.

Don't answer if you prefer not - but, is there a situation where you'd feel 'allowed' to make the opposite decision? Eg., could you see it happening when the children were adults, or when your parents (apologies for raising it) had passed on? I'm not asking to make you think of unpleasant eventualities, but just because for me, it helps clarify why I'm second-guessing myself.

gleam · 19/01/2016 21:16

Is it not utterly feminist to stay, because you've chosen to stay? As it would be equally feminist to leave if you wanted to.

museumum · 19/01/2016 21:16

"On principle" you should do what YOU want to do. So if you're staying cause he is controlling you or because you fear being judged by others or for any reason other than you actually want to then that's not great.
But if you genuinely honestly believe it's what you want, even after interrogating all the other reasons why it might be the easier option, then that is your choice to freely make.

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:15

I think my reasons are the generally accepted one: to 'work on' a longterm relationship, valuing the good aspects of what we have (and there are many), not 'giving up', the children, won't anybody think of the children, etc etc.

I suspect theoretical musings aside, only time will tell whether or not my feelings and thoughts about it all will change.

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Movingonmymind · 19/01/2016 21:14

Your decision should ideally be one you can come to accept, irrespective of principle. Are you worried what others think? Hard not to do so but they sre far less important than you and what you prioritise/need/think. Also maybe you can make the change later, when/if you're ready and resourced up. Might be right decision, wrong time??

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:13

Aaaargh, LRD, exactly!!
That circuitous argument has me quietly going nuts in my head!!

I should just Know My Place and be done with it!!

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StealthPolarBear · 19/01/2016 21:12

I see.
I don't think there's anything wrong with havingfeminist principles but choosing to make a decision which seems to counter them. A bit like with anything else that you have values or feel strongly about. There needs to be a good reason although you may not be able to articulate it. I suppose the worry is that you can't articulate it because your (general you, not you personally) reasons are bad ones.

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:12

Yes, it's that conditioning that I am questioning in myself.

Having said that, clearly DH feels he owes something to the relationship too, just not as much as I do. Entitlement played a huge role in his behaviour.

I can just see my own dad giving me that kind of a lecture, LRD, in fact I can imagine every single word, I think Grin

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 19/01/2016 21:10

Also, I'm going to put this badly, but ... if you left 'on principle' because it seemed right, but deep down you felt it wasn't what you wanted/needed, wouldn't that be another kind of betrayal of feminist principles? It'd be refusing to trust yourself as an authority on your own life.

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:09

Staying, I'm staying, Stealth, but I feel as a matter of principle I ought to leave Confused

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StealthPolarBear · 19/01/2016 21:08

Sorry I'm a bit lost. Are you leaving, and that's the 'unfeminist' bit, or staying?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 19/01/2016 21:08

I think women are quite strongly conditioned to believe they owe something to a relationship. Not to suggest this is what you're experiencing, but maybe it's part of it?

It always strikes me when people post elsewhere on the site with questions like 'AIBU not to want to date this man' or 'AIBU not to see him again', as if it's a question of what is reasonable and fair to the man involved.

Certainly as far as the personal side goes, I did get a massive (and delightfully Victorian) lecture from my dad about not giving up on the huge number of good things in my marriage. He had no interest in or knowledge of any problems (and he realised that), but he had no difficulty in telling me it would be a real 'shame' if I didn't work at the good bits.

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:08

Stealth, I'm fine, thanks. Your support has meant a lot when the proverbial hit the fan Thanks

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PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:07

This is really stuck in my craw tbh - I've made other 'unfeminist' decisions that I absolutely own and am not stuck on.

It's not divorce as such, it's leaving a longterm relationship as a matter of principle rather than because I wanted to leave.
It's nothing to do with forgiveness either, it's the principle of it that I find I cannot get past.

I am really grateful for everybody's thoughts btw and helping me apply some rigour to my half-thought through discomfort.

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StealthPolarBear · 19/01/2016 21:03

I firmly believe you can have feminist principles without every single decision standing up to the feminist board of scrutiny. For a variety of reason, life isn't black or whire there are 50 shades of grey (good film ;)). It is difficult I agree.
I am glad you're ok

Liara · 19/01/2016 21:03

I think it depends a lot on your particular background and circumstances.

In my family, divorce is so common that the idea of having pressure not to divorce is weird.

I have made many unfeminist choices in my life, starting with giving up a high flying career and getting worse from there. However, my own particular brand of feminism does not require me to try to be what society thinks men should be only more so, it just requires me to be what I want to be.

So by those standards, I could be a feminist, though most of the people on this board would disown me if they knew me.

WilLiAmHerschel · 19/01/2016 21:02

All our choices are influenced by one thing or another so I don't think any choice is completely free. Depending on your meaning of free.

Movingonmymind · 19/01/2016 21:00

Maybe. But often pragmatic reasons to stay (rightly or otherwise) . Individual, i think.

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 20:59

Hm, yes, coercion… no coercion, but are there not societal pressures in any society, so in ours, patriarchal pressures to remain in a marriage?
I often wonder how free many of our 'choices' are.

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Movingonmymind · 19/01/2016 20:57

Life is compromise and principles are mostly not absolutes.

TPel · 19/01/2016 20:57

It is your life to make the choices you want. As long as you are making the choice freely without coercion, nothing else really matters.