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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I have made a most unfeminist decision and I am struggling with it

107 replies

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 20:48

I identify as a feminist, but have made a rather unfeminist choice last year that I fully intend to stick with, but am struggling to reconcile with my feminist convictions.

Is that 'allowed'?
Does it make me a hypocrite?? I suspect so.
Is there some validity in believing in certain principles but not living by them when it comes to the crunch??
Can certain principles be right and proper but don't applied in all cases??

I'd rather make this a general discussion than going in to ins and outs of it all wrt to us here - we've got a very good counsellor for that Grin

OP posts:
CwtchMeQuick · 19/01/2016 22:43

Personally, I think of feminism as striving to give women equal opportunities as men. And as part of that, is having the power to make choices and decisions that suit you as an individual.
To be a feminist you don't have to base your decisions around what's right for women as a whole. I think it's more to do with allowing us all to have the power of choice.
So if you choose to be a SAHM, or to change your name when you get married, or to move for your husbands career, that's not unfeminist, because you made the decision that's right for you, taking into account factors that are important to you (job, friends, family, location, principles). Does that make sense?
What I'm trying to say is, if you make a decision that is what you want, not what someone else tells you you should want, I dont think that's unfeminist.

Twinklestein · 19/01/2016 22:36

Violet, it was you not me who 'rehashed it', I just asked a question.

OP, I think you need to define your interpretation of feminist 'principles' and the way in which you feel that you're not 'living by them'. Otherwise the matter is too nebulous to comment.

BertrandRussell · 19/01/2016 22:25

I think whoknows put it very well. But I would add one thing- if you have children it changes the game a bit. If you're modeling an unhealthy relationship for them then you may need to think again. Would you like your daughter to do whatever it is you've done- or for your son to expect his partner to?

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 22:25

Oh, I go by three name: my original name, my married name and the double-barrelled on in my passport that I never actually use other than when booking plane tickets Grin

alice, time will tell. It's not eating away at me - at present the balance of considerations is in favour of staying which might not always stay like that.

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Casmama · 19/01/2016 22:24

I think for me,and I hope this doesn't offend anyone, feminism is a bit like religion. There is a lot of theory and we strive to make live and act according to this theory but sometimes the right way is not entirely clear or for some reason we choose not to do what is theoretically the right thing.
I think that's ok and whilst it's important to strive, following the theory 100% is rarely possible and that doesn't make us hypocritical it just makes us human.

alicemalice · 19/01/2016 22:22

You need to do what's right for you. But it does sounds like you're not 100% with your decision and it's not sitting right with you. I wonder if that will continue to eat away at you?

PalmerViolet · 19/01/2016 22:22

Twinkle.. this is probably not the thread to rehash that particular subject.

My understanding of it is that it's a support thread, not an invitation to a bunfight.

Sorry.

WhoKn0wsWhereTheMistletoes · 19/01/2016 22:19

I get hot under the collar on threads about namechanging on marriage, Miss/Mrs/Ms etc, not because people want to do those things, it is their right to choose and we are fortunate that we can do so, but because some posters INSIST that they are feminist decisions just because they were made by feminists.

Twinklestein · 19/01/2016 22:18

Who says it's unfeminist to change your name?

Where is the board on which the rules of feminism are written?

Is this thread not falling into the trap of some kind of stereotyped idea of 'feminism'.

PalmerViolet · 19/01/2016 22:11

Sorry for your troubles Pacific, glad you felt able to post.

I'd agree with what WhoKnows as well.

Everyone makes unfeminist choices, even while knowing they are. A lot of feminists change their name on marriage, for example. Acknowledging that the choice we've made might not be the best for womankind as a whole, but works for us for reasons is ok, I think.

That's not to say that every choice a feminist makes is the feminist choice, but you obviously considered the pros and cons of your situation, and have made rational decisions with the chance to review.

Hope that made sense, and hope things pan out as you want them to.

Twinklestein · 19/01/2016 22:06

The point of feminism surely is to empower women to be free to make their own choices.

If a woman wants to go out to work or be an SAHM, whether she wants to dump a cheat or 'forgive' one - surely that's her right to decide?

Some relationships survive affairs, not many but it does happen.

The question is really whether, rather than being unfeminist you're actually being untrue to yourself, if you're eating shit to hold everything together.

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 22:02

I will be reviewing my stance every 6 months.
Thank you, all.

Food for thought from you all x.

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PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 22:00

Oh, you've verbalised it very nicely for me, WhoKowns, thank you.
I do feel secure in the knowledge that I have the means to live without him if I needed to.

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GreenTomatoJam · 19/01/2016 21:58

Making the choice to stay can always be changed. If you left, then that's a lot harder to undo.

so perhaps another thing feeding in is a not burning bridges/wait and see/first, do no harm/better the devil you know etc. reasoning

Alibabsandthe40Musketeers · 19/01/2016 21:58

For hundreds of years men have been using marriage as a means to have a more comfortable existence, the happiness of children, the social standing and so on, even while knowing that a relationship isn't 'perfect'.

I don't really see why women cannot do the same, but then I am an extremely pragmatic sort of person and I'm aware my views aren't to everyone's taste!

WhoKn0wsWhereTheMistletoes · 19/01/2016 21:58

I think it is OK to make non-feminist decisions provided you acknowledge that fact and also try and redress the balance in other ways that you can live with. None of us exist in a vacuum, whether we like it or not we are influenced by both our own family and friends and wider society and ultimately we do what is best for our own situation.

As for this particular situation, I think the feminist part is that you have kept yourself in the position where you could leave if you chose to do so, you have equality that way. No one knows that is round the corner, you may stay forever, you may at some point choose to leave, but the key thing is keeping for yourself the ability to live independently, then those patriarchal pressures to stay are weakened.

Alibabsandthe40Musketeers · 19/01/2016 21:55

I don't think what you decide to do within the context of your own marriage has anything to do with feminism.

You should stay (if you do) because you want to be there, because you believe that on balance you will be happier within the relationship than without it. There is obviously the huge consideration of children - and again I don't think it is 'unfeminist' to consider the happiness of your children weighed alongside your own.

Absolutely nothing wrong with making sure that you come further up your own pecking order though :)

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:51

I'm not sure there are 'good' reasons, just reasons.

Feminism probably doesn't give a flying fart whether I stay or go (or rather he goes) Grin

Twinkle, I feel I am somehow endorsing his past behaviour by staying.

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Twinklestein · 19/01/2016 21:45

Why is staying with a cheat 'unfeminist' OP? (I'm guessing here...)

LRDtheFeministDragon · 19/01/2016 21:42

Ooh, no!

I disagree entirely that being fond of him is a good reason to stay.

I'm very fond of my ex-husband. In fact I think he's a lovely man. But it was absolutely the right thing for me to go. The fondness was a big part of what made it all complicated.

DioneTheDiabolist · 19/01/2016 21:41

Make a list of your reasons for staying OP and review them. If you decided to stay for your own benefit then you have not made an unfeminist choice.

How would feminism have benefitted if you chose to leave?

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:28

Oh gawd, yes, bibbity, I just reread your 2nd paragraph, that is exactly what I am doing: making myself a priority for myself a priority. Quite good fun actually Grin

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whattheseithakasmean · 19/01/2016 21:27

I wouldn't leave a relationship for a 'principle', but I would if I didn't love them. In matters of the heart, I think principles are over rated. If you still love and desire him, that is worth staying & working on. If there ain't no love then there ain't no use, as they say, regardless of principles.

PacificDogwod · 19/01/2016 21:27

Aw, thank you all!
No guilt here, far too selfish for that, bibbity!

Moving, I hope you are ok.

I am in a really fortunate (and I realise not entirely typical) position that if I wanted us to split, we could, and I could go it alone. So, I am far less 'trapped' than many another woman, and I value that hugely.

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bibbitybobbityyhat · 19/01/2016 21:24

Don't you dare heap yet more guilt upon yourself op, do you hear?

If you've made your decision then go with it for a year or two (it's not forever) whilst in the meantime quietly getting on with living a bit more like you actually are single and actually not in a lt relationship. So be a bit less available, a bit more autonomous, a bit less involved in picking up the slack. Is that possible?